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I dont know whether your misinterpretation is because of the odd hour or an irregular lapse of concentration but you have missed my point. Arguments are of three types.
1. Correct (supported by facts) 2. Incorrect (refuted by facts) 3. Meaningless (in the absence of facts)
The '26/1122' argument falls in category 3. Your contention that the ratio can't be as low is just your perception. I have the opinion that the ratio can be very close to that. Unless you have some statistics to back your claim, our opinions are meaningless. They do nothing to eliminate the meaningless-ness of the initial argument. In short, the supporters of '26/1122' need statistics to prove their legitimacy, not otherwise.
Other than that you are only pointing to a chicken-n-egg problem which I am not inclined to comment on.
PS. Usually I am not awake at this hour but it is friday night and the economic survey is quite boring.
@The_Universalist , Hi, I am quoting your comment because it is well put in words as exactly as I was thinking. I am highlighting few lines in your comment, please don't take it personally. I hope you'll understand the concern. Thanks.
Though, i wanted to discuss messi on this thread but it seems that you guys are in no mood to discuss about the gala at marcana; unrelenting arguments from both sides compels me to choose one and play a devil's advocate. 1. To term the cry of hindi medium student as emotional, i think, is somewhat rude.Those who think that 26/1122 is because of relatively larger number of students appearing with english as medium, i suggest them to think again. Ratio of student writing mains with hindi as a medium to that of english as a medium is not as low as 0.0231 (26/1122). so, until you have full statistics you can't term their concerns as meaningless. 2. tell me how making the CSAT paper of qualifying nature amounts to dilution of the level of the exam????on the contrary, i think it will only enhance it's level. i have seen some non-serious players clearing prelims because of CSAT, only to decide later not to write mains exam. P.S- I am an IIT graduate and can easily score 165+ even without devoting a second to it.
The lines I highlighted in the above comment is what I meant in my comment. Not to bash them or comment their hardworking nature. Please, don't say that I should be shameful of my opinion. I am quite surprised by your rude reply and more than 20 people even liking it with out understanding what I was saying. One guy even said "you nailed it" !! My point is not about hardworking nature of IIT/IIM s .
I am happy that at least one IIT guy @The_Universalist came forward to at least say something about it.
How come this exam is level playing, when a section of students could clear it easily without hard work? We can see many cleared tech candidates accepting that they did not prepare for Paper-2. All of us honestly in our hearts know that paper 2 strongly favors techies.
Only because of CSAT, some guys are dare enough to start preparation just before prelims, like learn Telugu in 30 days !! Lol
Without hard work? Do you think that engg., MBAs etc. clear CSAT without hard work? I mean how? Do they get the CSAT paper in their mails in advance or UPSC has given them a privilege of marking any random option and it would still be counted as correct? They have at some point of time prepared very hard for these kind of exams. Do you know how much of effort goes in preparing for IIT/AIEEE/CAT? Shame if you think like this.
Chill buddy !! I have read few toppers interviews where THEY themselves claimed they didn't prepare much
I was saying that they won't work hard for CSAT . I didn't say that they did n't comment about their hard work and struggle in CAT/IIT/AIEEE !!!
You offended me buddy by using the word shame .
Suppose you are an History hon. student passed out of DU who has been reading history throughout college.If someone will ask you what special preparation you did for GS-history, you will say i did not prepare much. That is because you have throughout been putting a lot of efforts. I might have offended you by using the word "shame". I am sorry, but the way you have underlined "without hard work" in your comment has offended many "techies" who have put in their sweat and blood at some point of time.
P.S: The toppers whose interview you have read are toppers not because of CSAT but because of GS , optional and interview.
By underlining 'without hard work' , I meant an entire Paper became easy for them without a need to study much. But paper 1 is equally tough for both arts and techies. My intention was not to comment about hard work they put in their respective exams.
Its just my opinion, if it hurts, sorry.
And for those who are saying that almost all questions are translated in Hindi, India is not just Hindi, there are many regional aspirants who are in need of translations. Please come out of your comfort zone and think about others.
And those who are talking about 'creams' , There are creams in every field/course/institute not just IIT/IIM.
Finally, to support a cause/protest one need not physically join them. At least I am supporting it in social networking sites even though it is like a drop in the ocean.
@Nai1 I am with you. I am pretty decent at CSAT particularly at RC's and I do think Paper 2 gives some an advantage - whether it is fair or unfair is another point of debate.
Those who are turning this debate into engineers vs. non engineers are missing a point. The whole point of debate is that whether Engineers/IIM Graduates/students who are good at english due to their schooling etc. have an advantage in Paper 2 due to their educational/social background.
bhai I consider you a very reasonable man, and the point you are missing is that you might have not worked hard for Paper 2 per se but nevertheless you are good at it because of your particular educational/social background. On the other hand, someone might have to put a lot of extra effort because these things do not come to them naturally. Also, the history argument is fallacious to an extent because weight of CSAT when compared to history is miniscule. You should ask yourself whether you would have scored equally well after putting the same effort had you been a Hindi Medium/Biology student throughout your life - May be but would you be so sure?
Another point I don't understand why they want to test English Language skills at two stages. Isn't compulsory English exam in mains trying to do the same - then why do we need comprehension in CSAT? Moreover, another issue was Hindi translation is not up to the mark and passages end up losing their meaning in translation.
Lastly, before we mock those people who are protesting, let's not forget that we were similarly rejecting their claims when there were demands for age relaxation. What UPSC wants or does not want does not matter. Cabinet is UPSC's boss, and if these guys get government's attention, changes can easily happen.
Guys let's have a little empathy and not make judgement about people we don't know anything about.
Those complaining that IIT graduates emerged only after 2011, I don't have stats but IIT Grads have regularly featured in CSE Final list including toppers (Shubra Ranjan (IITR), Prince Dhawan (IITD) I can recall for now). For increasing numbers, read Mrunal's post on post 2010 changes. http://mrunal.org/2012/11/strategy-upsc-civil-service-exam-ias-ips-csat-general-studies-part1.html. He clearly argues, in pre 2010 era the exam was all about cramming, read 4-5 standard books and you are done. Now, not only Prelims, but Mains require both deeper understanding as well as critical analytical ability to clear in which these guys/girls excel, not because they are inherently good at it, but they have developed it over the years of focussed hard work. The exam with its increased focus on Current Affairs (GSII and GSIII was almost 100% current affairs based), even working Post Grads can afford to take a shot and some eventually manage to cross the bar. I'm not arguing that IIT/IIM/AIIMS graduates have monopoly over intelligence. I made this and the previous post solely to ask people to stop blaming these guys/girls for your own shortcomings.
PS: The highlights in my previous post were not mine. Moderator requested to post a note underneath.
It will be a sad thing if our uneducated representatives give in to such ridiculous demands made by a handful crooks.If they remove csat,then it will be the only exam which is going against the flow.Shame on these few hindi heartland guys if they can't take little efforts to learn the international link language.They should learn from our south indian friends who are equally comfortable in both languages.Im pretty sure those who are protesting will be the least serious candidates.But what's troubling me is that the ruling govt has a tendency of supporting this issue and the fact that there are so many reps from those regions means this obnoxious move might just happen and when it does we are back in jurassic!Kudos to regression upsc style:'(
think again you are preparing UPSC Exam... after your selection you should follow the instruction of so called uneducated representatives
I dont know whether your misinterpretation is because of the odd hour or an irregular lapse of concentration but you have missed my point. Arguments are of three types.
1. Correct (supported by facts) 2. Incorrect (refuted by facts) 3. Meaningless (in the absence of facts)
The '26/1122' argument falls in category 3. Your contention that the ratio can't be as low is just your perception. I have the opinion that the ratio can be very close to that. Unless you have some statistics to back your claim, our opinions are meaningless. They do nothing to eliminate the meaningless-ness of the initial argument. In short, the supporters of '26/1122' need statistics to prove their legitimacy, not otherwise.
Other than that you are only pointing to a chicken-n-egg problem which I am not inclined to comment on.
PS. Usually I am not awake at this hour but it is friday night and the economic survey is quite boring.
It will be a sad thing if our uneducated representatives give in to such ridiculous demands made by a handful crooks.If they remove csat,then it will be the only exam which is going against the flow.Shame on these few hindi heartland guys if they can't take little efforts to learn the international link language.They should learn from our south indian friends who are equally comfortable in both languages.Im pretty sure those who are protesting will be the least serious candidates.But what's troubling me is that the ruling govt has a tendency of supporting this issue and the fact that there are so many reps from those regions means this obnoxious move might just happen and when it does we are back in jurassic!Kudos to regression upsc style:'(
think again you are preparing UPSC Exam... after your selection you will follow the instruction of so called uneducated representatives
I am commerce graduate means should I protest for csat and gs ?~X( .Both are unknown to me or there should be only economy or finance related question for me in exam.:P
Being IIT/IIM shows you are sincere throughout your life and CSE want that sincerness only.Most of the Arts guys opt arts not because they are interested in it but their super performance in Board Exam doesnot allow them to further go with Science.Debasita Banik (CSE12 rank 14) is arts graduate but she chose it for CSE only as she scored 96/92 in her boards.But she never complained about CSAT.
One of my relative is Pub Ad (M.Phil degree) preparing since graduation and it has been 10 years but he regularly complain about CSAT.He thought that only he has done labour IIT/IIM wale to padhte hi nahi hai.If he is so serious about CSAT it has been 3 years since introduction of CSAT and 3 years he should be able to crack CSE thrice.
If CSAT would be removed they will say GS1 is biased towards Engg/Doctors as there are many questions from Science and Environment .Then MPs will remvove GS1 also.MPs politics will make it dirty field.Its one of the fair (rest you all know about state PSC recently UPPSC,RAS case) exam in India and politicians want their dirty politics here too.
MOST OF THE ARTS GUYS ARE THIRD CLASS PASSOUTS WANT CAKEWALK BUT UPSC WILL TAKE REVENGE.
Suna hai ki csat ki gaadi shaayad chali gayi....jinhone sawaari kar li...ab unhe dobaara majaa nahi milegaa.....jald hi ye nws aane waali hai doston......
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Comments
I dont know whether your misinterpretation is because of the odd hour or an irregular lapse of concentration but you have missed my point. Arguments are of three types.
1. Correct (supported by facts)
2. Incorrect (refuted by facts)
3. Meaningless (in the absence of facts)
The '26/1122' argument falls in category 3. Your contention that the ratio can't be as low is just your perception. I have the opinion that the ratio can be very close to that. Unless you have some statistics to back your claim, our opinions are meaningless. They do nothing to eliminate the meaningless-ness of the initial argument. In short, the supporters of '26/1122' need statistics to prove their legitimacy, not otherwise.
Other than that you are only pointing to a chicken-n-egg problem which I am not inclined to comment on.
PS. Usually I am not awake at this hour but it is friday night and the economic survey is quite boring.
@andy133
The lines I highlighted in the above comment is what I meant in my comment. Not to bash them or comment their hardworking nature. Please, don't say that I should be shameful of my opinion. I am quite surprised by your rude reply and more than 20 people even liking it with out understanding what I was saying. One guy even said "you nailed it" !!
My point is not about hardworking nature of IIT/IIM s .
I am happy that at least one IIT guy @The_Universalist came forward to at least say something about it.
And for those who are saying that almost all questions are translated in Hindi, India is not just Hindi, there are many regional aspirants who are in need of translations. Please come out of your comfort zone and think about others.
And those who are talking about 'creams' , There are creams in every field/course/institute not just IIT/IIM.
Finally, to support a cause/protest one need not physically join them. At least I am supporting it in social networking sites even though it is like a drop in the ocean.
With all respect, Thanks.
I am with you. I am pretty decent at CSAT particularly at RC's and I do think Paper 2 gives some an advantage - whether it is fair or unfair is another point of debate.
Those who are turning this debate into engineers vs. non engineers are missing a point. The whole point of debate is that whether Engineers/IIM Graduates/students who are good at english due to their schooling etc. have an advantage in Paper 2 due to their educational/social background.
@andy133
bhai I consider you a very reasonable man, and the point you are missing is that you might have not worked hard for Paper 2 per se but nevertheless you are good at it because of your particular educational/social background. On the other hand, someone might have to put a lot of extra effort because these things do not come to them naturally. Also, the history argument is fallacious to an extent because weight of CSAT when compared to history is miniscule. You should ask yourself whether you would have scored equally well after putting the same effort had you been a Hindi Medium/Biology student throughout your life - May be but would you be so sure?
Another point I don't understand why they want to test English Language skills at two stages. Isn't compulsory English exam in mains trying to do the same - then why do we need comprehension in CSAT? Moreover, another issue was Hindi translation is not up to the mark and passages end up losing their meaning in translation.
Lastly, before we mock those people who are protesting, let's not forget that we were similarly rejecting their claims when there were demands for age relaxation. What UPSC wants or does not want does not matter. Cabinet is UPSC's boss, and if these guys get government's attention, changes can easily happen.
Guys let's have a little empathy and not make judgement about people we don't know anything about.
He clearly argues, in pre 2010 era the exam was all about cramming, read 4-5 standard books and you are done. Now, not only Prelims, but Mains require both deeper understanding as well as critical analytical ability to clear in which these guys/girls excel, not because they are inherently good at it, but they have developed it over the years of focussed hard work. The exam with its increased focus on Current Affairs (GSII and GSIII was almost 100% current affairs based), even working Post Grads can afford to take a shot and some eventually manage to cross the bar.
I'm not arguing that IIT/IIM/AIIMS graduates have monopoly over intelligence. I made this and the previous post solely to ask people to stop blaming these guys/girls for your own shortcomings.
PS: The highlights in my previous post were not mine. Moderator requested to post a note underneath.
after your selection you should follow the instruction of so called uneducated representatives
.........Respect......
Being IIT/IIM shows you are sincere throughout your life and CSE want that sincerness only.Most of the Arts guys opt arts not because they are interested in it but their super performance in Board Exam doesnot allow them to further go with Science.Debasita Banik (CSE12 rank 14) is arts graduate but she chose it for CSE only as she scored 96/92 in her boards.But she never complained about CSAT.
One of my relative is Pub Ad (M.Phil degree) preparing since graduation and it has been 10 years but he regularly complain about CSAT.He thought that only he has done labour IIT/IIM wale to padhte hi nahi hai.If he is so serious about CSAT it has been 3 years since introduction of CSAT and 3 years he should be able to crack CSE thrice.
If CSAT would be removed they will say GS1 is biased towards Engg/Doctors as there are many questions from Science and Environment .Then MPs will remvove GS1 also.MPs politics will make it dirty field.Its one of the fair (rest you all know about state PSC recently UPPSC,RAS case) exam in India and politicians want their dirty politics here too.
MOST OF THE ARTS GUYS ARE THIRD CLASS PASSOUTS WANT CAKEWALK BUT UPSC WILL TAKE REVENGE.