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People are against reservations but no one saying anything about caste abolition....
P. S - Just curious
caste oppression is not so much a truth vis-a-vis OBCs as with SCs. This discussion is particularly about OBCs, so may be that's why less of the caste abolition talk.
Yes you are right but without annihilation of caste nothing will happen... Not wrt OBCs even
Basic Problem is that people want secular aspect of society to change but sacred part should be left untouched
Why only OBCs.. .lets remove the reservation for privileged sections among SCsand STs and reallocate the same to poorer sections and annihilate caste ....
GoI recent initiatives- For SCS n sts:Stand up India. For Minority:nayi manzil scheme For differently abled:sugam Bharat abhiyan. For Ur middle class:Quit India initiatives.
The irony here is that "lower" castes demand reservation for "upliftment". But, since humans are by nature selfish, people do not give up reservation benefits when they get "uplifted". On the contrary, the benefits incentivize the "lower" castes to remain "lower" castes! Rampant corruption while getting non-creamy layer certificates is there for everyone to see. The cycle continues without a break.
And yet, India does not have caste-based reservation. It has class-based reservation.
Now the most pertinent question arises: What to abolish first - the caste system or reservation? The former will take a change of mindset (at both ends) and the latter, the stroke of a pen; all this while trying (and failing) to dodge the looming spectre of the pernicious politicians and their precious vote banks.
People are against reservations but no one saying anything about caste abolition....
P. S - Just curious
caste oppression is not so much a truth vis-a-vis OBCs as with SCs. This discussion is particularly about OBCs, so may be that's why less of the caste abolition talk.
Yes you are right but without annihilation of caste nothing will happen... Not wrt OBCs even
Basic Problem is that people want secular aspect of society to change but sacred part should be left untouched
Why only OBCs.. .lets remove the reservation for privileged sections among SCsand STs and reallocate the same to poorer sections and annihilate caste ....
OBC reservation itself accounts for more than half of reservations benefits. Addressing just this part would be dealing with a big share of the issues that are not right with the resrvation policy. And when 73% seats are for open competitition the angst against the phenomena of reserved seats would also be less acrimonious. In the overall perspective on reservation policy, benefits accrued by 'creamy layer' in SC/STs might seem unjustified, but it also needs to be seen that there is a psychological aspect about oppression meted out to SC communities that surpasses economic stature. It's still debatable but if we see in the light that even historical injustice against SCs was thought to be addressed in a decade long period, the case for OBCs continuing to get benefits for social backwardness is on the thinnest surface. There are no external agency suppressing the OBCs. The extent to which these benefits have penetrated into such communities has been enough to break any social inertia for a modern social mobilization. Any remnent issues or extant problems of low literacy, child marriages, etc. need to be addressed in its own way not through reservation aymore. Reservation has done its job for OBCs atleast by providing enough benchmarks and broken stereotypes in public life.
Sorrrrry sorrrryyyy for d my above comment.I really have no prblm wid SCS n never had been.I sincerely apologise to ol my scs/dalits frnzs for historical injustices faced by due to misdeeds f my ancestors.really sorrrrrryyyyhhh thnx.I n my cmng generation r ready to pay debt to SCS in any high reservations.bus aap ye obc n st reservations hatwa do plzzzz
I know that one cant compare the situation of OBCs and SCs.. ..i myself belong to SC
the reason i said it should be done for privileged sections in SCs and STs also is because i think its high time people should acknowledge the futility of the caste system and come together for Nation building if not for humanity....
Taking out OBCs from reservations without involving Privileged sections from SCs and STs and without destroying caste would only redirect anger of OBCs in areas where they are dominant ( almost in all areas) towards those who would be still getting the reservations. ..how long we want this cycle to go on. ..
Piecemeal and superficial rejigs wont solve the basic problem.... I am in total agreement with you...the only difference is that i dont think the issue would stop there, it will keep on changing its form and people will be oppressed till the day caste is abolished....
india caste system was dynamic till independence: let's start from Ramayana ram was king and he has with him all caste people be it nishad raj (Now ST) or even the Valmiki (Now SC) with them. All were respected has complete autonomy. And see the case of ravan he was high clan brahmin but was called rakshasha due to his deeds.So it was ur deeds which determined your caste . So don't fool urself by telling 1000 yrs of injustice
Let's move further when British conquest started see the kings whom they defeated. It has a whole account of more than 60% kings were OBC and Dalits. Again read Vivekanand what he writes : Though I m from very low caste now but there was a time when my caste ruled over half of the indian territory. But the nehruvian politics andha banten rebri apne apne ko de To promote his family interest & consolidate his power he tried to appease the elite from certain segment and said oh u r obc or u r dalit now u will be dalit for life time. Rahi sahi kasar dalit elite ne Ambedkar ji ghar vikwane me koi kashar nahi chora jisse kitta ye log inki chinta karte hain sab pata chalta hai. Another politics was of congress sandwich alliance- they systematically excluded middle peasantry caste of some state and included others. In yadav social status in UP and jat social status there is no difference.
Finally reservation will remain in india for next 1000 yrs atleast but don't call 1000yrs of injustice
The very fact that people who are mobilising themselves are renting rooms in ORN and MN and are able to pay 8000-10000 for their rents points to the fact that they are already well of and the irony is that they cry injustice and backwardness.
This also proves that most of them have forged income statements, not paid proper income tax thus creating black money and fake non creamy certificates
Sorrrrry sorrrryyyy for d my above comment.I really have no prblm wid SCS n never had been.I sincerely apologise to ol my scs/dalits frnzs for historical injustices faced by due to misdeeds f my ancestors.really sorrrrrryyyyhhh thnx.I n my cmng generation r ready to pay debt to SCS in any high reservations.bus aap ye obc n st reservations hatwa do plzzzz
Sorrrrry sorrrryyyy for d my above comment.I really have no prblm wid SCS n never had been.I sincerely apologise to ol my scs/dalits frnzs for historical injustices faced by due to misdeeds f my ancestors.really sorrrrrryyyyhhh thnx.I n my cmng generation r ready to pay debt to SCS in any high reservations.bus aap ye obc n st reservations hatwa do plzzzz
But In previous life you might have been a Dalit or an untouchable and now a General. So it is feasible that you might have been discriminated against in both the lives
Similarly In previous life a dalit might have been an upper caste and now a Dalit . So enjoying previliges in both the lives
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Comments
Basic Problem is that people want secular aspect of society to change but sacred part should be left untouched
Why only OBCs.. .lets remove the reservation for privileged sections among SCsand STs and reallocate the same to poorer sections and annihilate caste ....
For SCS n sts:Stand up India.
For Minority:nayi manzil scheme
For differently abled:sugam Bharat abhiyan.
For Ur middle class:Quit India initiatives.
Rampant corruption while getting non-creamy layer certificates is there for everyone to see.
The cycle continues without a break.
And yet, India does not have caste-based reservation. It has class-based reservation.
Now the most pertinent question arises: What to abolish first - the caste system or reservation?
The former will take a change of mindset (at both ends) and the latter, the stroke of a pen; all this while trying (and failing) to dodge the looming spectre of the pernicious politicians and their precious vote banks.
sry for using slang language.
I know that one cant compare the situation of OBCs and SCs.. ..i myself belong to SC
the reason i said it should be done for privileged sections in SCs and STs also is because i think its high time people should acknowledge the futility of the caste system and come together for Nation building if not for humanity....
Taking out OBCs from reservations without involving Privileged sections from SCs and STs and without destroying caste would only redirect anger of OBCs in areas where they are dominant ( almost in all areas) towards those who would be still getting the reservations. ..how long we want this cycle to go on. ..
Piecemeal and superficial rejigs wont solve the basic problem....
I am in total agreement with you...the only difference is that i dont think the issue would stop there, it will keep on changing its form and people will be oppressed till the day caste is abolished....
india caste system was dynamic till independence:
let's start from Ramayana ram was king and he has with him all caste people be it nishad raj (Now ST) or even the Valmiki (Now SC) with them. All were respected has complete autonomy.
And see the case of ravan he was high clan brahmin but was called rakshasha due to his deeds.So it was ur deeds which determined your caste . So don't fool urself by telling 1000 yrs of injustice
Let's move further when British conquest started see the kings whom they defeated. It has a whole account of more than 60% kings were OBC and Dalits.
Again read Vivekanand what he writes : Though I m from very low caste now but there was a time when my caste ruled over half of the indian territory.
But the nehruvian politics andha banten rebri apne apne ko de
To promote his family interest & consolidate his power he tried to appease the elite from certain segment and said oh u r obc or u r dalit now u will be dalit for life time.
Rahi sahi kasar dalit elite ne Ambedkar ji ghar vikwane me koi kashar nahi chora jisse kitta ye log inki chinta karte hain sab pata chalta hai.
Another politics was of congress sandwich alliance- they systematically excluded middle peasantry caste of some state and included others. In yadav social status in UP and jat social status there is no difference.
Finally reservation will remain in india for next 1000 yrs atleast but don't call 1000yrs of injustice
But In previous life you might have been a Dalit or an untouchable and now a General. So it is feasible that you might have been discriminated against in both the lives
Similarly In previous life a dalit might have been an upper caste and now a Dalit . So enjoying previliges in both the lives