There is ongoing thread for OBC reservation issue at Prelims stage in UPSC.
I was browsing through the thread to get the hang of issue. There is some procedural issue in according the
reservation benefit at the prelims stage. But the recent SC judgment makes it clear that there is no constitutional
obligation on the Executive authority to provide reservation at the Prelims/Qualifying stage in competitive examinations.
indianexpress.com/article/india/crime/reservation-for-scs-sts-not-must-at-prelimssc/Time again we have seen many debates about the reservation issue.
Let the focus of this thread only on the validity of the argument of OBCs for reservation benefits in general.
My Take,
Mandal Commission report itself was filled with inconsistencies.
The Mandal Commission adopted various methods and techniques to collect the necessary data and evidence. In order to identify who qualified as an "other backward class," the commission adopted eleven criteria which could be grouped under three major headings: social, educational and economic. 11 criteria were developed to identify OBCs
Look at these criteria :
Social[edit]
1. Castes/classes considered as socially backward by others,
2. Castes/classes which mainly depend on manual labour for their livelihood,
3. Castes/classes where at least 25 per cent females and 10 per cent males above the state average get married at an age below 17 years in rural areas and at least 10 per cent females and 5 per cent males do so in urban areas.
4. Castes/classes where participation of females in work is at least 2 per cent above the state average,
[3]
Educational[edit]
1. Castes/classes where the number of children in the age group of 5–15 years who never attended school is at least 25 per cent above the state average.
2. Castes/classes when the rate of student drop-out in the age group of 5-15 years is at least 25 per cent above the state average,
3. Castes/classes amongst whom the proportion of matriculates is at least 25 per cent below the state average,
[3]
Economic[edit]
1. Castes/classes where the average value of family assets is at least 25 per cent below the state average,
2. Castes/classes where the number of families living in kuccha houses is at least 25 per cent above the state average,
3. Castes/classes where the source of drinking water is beyond half a kilometre for more than 50 per cent of the households,
4. Castes/classes where the number of households having taken consumption loans is at least 25 per cent above the' state average.
Comments
Mandal commission report was based on the 1931 census. Almost 10/11 criteria can be discarded due to invalid data.
It is commom knowledge that it was nothing more than the lobbyist's report and V.P. singh used Mandal as a political tool to save his govt. There are many more arguments about it. which can run into pages.
If one wants to have a clear picture about Patronage Paradigm of Political economy, where the political class poses as provenance of all welfare indulge into doles, but keeps the people disempowered by denying the grass root education, read Arun Shourie's book on the issue of reservation.
We encourage here logical arguments here. Don't potray yourself as a saviour of OBCs. . It's fine if you want to have the doles. But don't spread the nonsense bullshit about perceived historical injustice suffered by the OBCs without any facts. If you have the logical argument, justify the reservation by all means for OBCs. but don't start with how you or neighbours have suffered injustice at the hand of upper castes.
Let me put up the letter here what Pandit Nehru's opinion on reservation was:
This way lies not only folly, but disaster.
Prime Minister of India Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru in his letter dated 27th June, 1961 wrote:-
"I have referred above to efficiency and to our getting out of our traditional roots. This necessitates our getting out of the old habit of reservations and particular privileges being given to this caste or that group. The recent meeting we held here, at which the Chief Ministers were present, to consider national integration, laid down that help should be given on economic considerations and not on caste. It is true that we are tied up with certain rules and conventions about helping the scheduled castes and tribes. They deserve help but, even so I dislike any kind of reservation, more particularly in Services. I react strongly against anything which leads to inefficiency and second-rate standards. I want my country to be a first class country in everything. The moment we encourage the second-rate, we are lost.
The only real way to help a backward group is to give opportunities of good education, this includes technical education which is becoming more and more important. Everything else is provision of some kind of crutches which do not add to the strength or health of the body. We have made recently two decisions which are very important one is, universal free elementary education, that is the base; and the second is scholarships on a very wide scale at every grade of education to the bright boys and girls, and this applies not merely to literary education, but much more so, to technical, scientific and medical training. I lay stress on the bright and able boys and girls because it is only they who will raise our standards. I have no doubt that there is a vast reservoir of potential talent in this country if only we can give it opportunity.
But if we go in for reservations on communal and caste basis, we swamp the bright and able people and remain second-rate or third-rate. I am grieved to learn how for this business of reservations has gone based on communal considerations. It has amazed me to learn that even promotions are based sometimes on communal or caste considerations. This way lies not only folly, but disaster. Let us help the backward groups by all means, but never at the cost of efficiency. How are we going to build the public sector or indeed any sector with second-rate people?"
two words are enough
"scrap reservation"
"LOL"
- Reservations would exist as long as our Republic of India exists. Mark my words.
I don't know what kind of injustice you OBC guys are talking about. Most of the OBCs come from dominant castes( M N Srinivas). They enjoy considerable amount of power ( identity politics- yadavs of UP and Bihar). Their economic status is considerably similar to general people
The extension of quota to OBCs was politically motivated ( Mandalisation) and not based on social justice
Now coming to SCs and STs. The reservation is monopolised by certain castes. Their previous generations have already utilised and they are now considerably well of. The real poor tribals , agricultural labourers are not even able to complete their education and live on hand to mouth existence. In SCs and STs utilising reservation certain castes and families are continuously utilising reservation to the exclusion of others who really deserve it ( read the likes of divya khobragade and last year UPSC topper)
This reservation debate is futile. Nothing is going to happen as long as caste politics stays. BJP was thrashed in Bihar elections when RSS argued that there is a need to rethink reservation policy. I am not against the concept of reservation per se but the manner in which it is being implemented
It is reverse discrimination because rich general candidates don't think about these exams. Only middle class do and most of the them don't have enough money to attend coaching classes, buy materials, or leave jobs. Other candidates on the other hand proudly kick a gifted job, rent an AC room in ORN, get a high speed internet connection, spend around 2 lakhs on coaching classes, try to find girlfriends/boyfriends in those classes and so on. I seriously doubt that a poor socially suppressed/depressed SC guy/girl can score more than 800 marks (there can be exceptions but I am talking in general). So all in all, reservation is benefiting only a particular section of society--grandfather was an engineer in railways, father is an ambassador in France, and the daughter just got "enough" marks to get IAS. This section is only going to strengthen its grip by strengthening the reservation criteria. And all those Brahmans, Baniyas, Rajputs will either happily leave this country or will proudly accept the "depressed classes" status or maybe die miserably:)
Sab Vote Bank Politics hai Hindustan mein.. Iske alawa kuch nahi hai.
Aarkashan isliye hai kyonki Logon ke Vote chahiye Netaao ko.... Jis din Vote Bank Politics khatam hui na, Aarkashan ke naam par Kuch bhi NAHI milne waala kisi ko...
Koi Neta yaa koi bhi Politician, kisi Caste ka sagaa Nahi hai..
Par Durbhaagya ye hai ki Hindustan se kabhi bhi " Vote Bank Politics " khatam NAHI hone waali... Aur isliye Aarakshan ka ye Raakshas, Aarakshan ka ye Shraap, yahaan se kabhi nahi jaane waala..
Post Script: Chalo bhaiyya kal Ganesh Chaturthi hai..
" Ganapati Bappaa.. Moriyaa.
Mangalmoorty... Moriyaa "
P. S - Just curious