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in case of money bills, does it say anywhere that president has to assent with a time limit? I am trying to find if President can put pocket veto on money bills.
No kind of veto for money bill. He has to assent and will assent. There is no time limit. But this delay cannot be equated to pocket veto. Nature of pocket veto is different n applicable only for ordinary Bill. A mere delay cannot qualify for veto
No disagree here... In class while discussion faculty pointed that until constitution say no, prez is very much allowed to exploit grey area... Money bill can be vetoed... It doesn't happen generally bc he had aprroved earlier... But nothing binding on him... U cab very well research..
Constitution has not mentioned explicitly whether money bill can be vetoed or not.
But, if president vetoes, it's going against hill will. So , though constitution has not mentioned, it should be understood that money bill cannot be vetoed. Vetoing money bill is not grey area. It's implicit.
When constitution doesnt restrict prez frm doing, then he can very well exercise it no matter if he approved before. Generally doesnt happen cos he is taken into confidence before but he is very much allowed to. So lets not make any judgement ..he can veto. Quote any expert/source which says he cant... just convention which is followed.
+1
The president can use pocket veto against a money bill irrespective of what so ever.
Art 111: Prez can do 3 things when he receives a bill: 1. give assent 2. withhold assent --- Absolute Veto 3. return it ( if it is not money bill) --- Suspensive Veto
Suspensive Veto CANNOT be used in case of money bill. Power of pocket veto is derived from Suspensive Veto- WHY??? - exact phrase used in Art 111 is - " as soon as possible" which gives Prez a discretionary power- he can decide what is soon/early, so he can sit as long as he pleases --> this only translate into a pocket veto.Why I am saying this because - In USA, on the other hand, the president has to return the bill for reconsideration within 10 days. Hence, it is remarked that the pocket of the Indian President is bigger than that of the American President. Means in US a time frame is given within which Prez has to decide if the bill has to be returned for reconsideration - In India - phrase used is " as soon as possible" so NO such time limit given. So pocket veto cannot be used in case of money bill.
in case of money bills, does it say anywhere that president has to assent with a time limit? I am trying to find if President can put pocket veto on money bills.
No kind of veto for money bill. He has to assent and will assent. There is no time limit. But this delay cannot be equated to pocket veto. Nature of pocket veto is different n applicable only for ordinary Bill. A mere delay cannot qualify for veto
No disagree here... In class while discussion faculty pointed that until constitution say no, prez is very much allowed to exploit grey area... Money bill can be vetoed... It doesn't happen generally bc he had aprroved earlier... But nothing binding on him... U cab very well research..
Constitution has not mentioned explicitly whether money bill can be vetoed or not.
But, if president vetoes, it's going against hill will. So , though constitution has not mentioned, it should be understood that money bill cannot be vetoed. Vetoing money bill is not grey area. It's implicit.
When constitution doesnt restrict prez frm doing, then he can very well exercise it no matter if he approved before. Generally doesnt happen cos he is taken into confidence before but he is very much allowed to. So lets not make any judgement ..he can veto. Quote any expert/source which says he cant... just convention which is followed.
+1
The president can use pocket veto against a money bill irrespective of what so ever.
__________ Article 111. Assent to Bills When a Bill has been passed by the Houses of Parliament, it shall be presented to the President, and the President shall declare either that he assents to the Bill, or that he withholds assent therefrom Provided that the President may, as soon as possible after the presentation to him of a Bill for assent, return the Bill if it is not a Money Bill to the Houses with a message requesting that they will reconsider the Bill or any specified provisions thereof and, in particular, will consider the desirability of introducing any such amendments as he may recommend in his message, and when a Bill is so returned, the Houses shall reconsider the Bill accordingly, and if the Bill is passed again by the Houses with or without amendment and presented to the President for assent, the President shall not withhold assent therefrom Procedures in Financial Matters. _________________ There is no time limit for anything - giving assent, withholding, returning bill, deciding mercy petition etc.
Not like because of suspense veto (return as soon as possible) pocket veto exist. For other actions also time limit not fixed.
Even for Constitution Amendment Bill CoM cannot prescribe a time limit for giving assent. If President inordinately delay his constitutional duties it's violation (impeachment or SC introducing new interpretation like mercy petition delay they commuted death penalty)
in case of money bills, does it say anywhere that president has to assent with a time limit? I am trying to find if President can put pocket veto on money bills.
No kind of veto for money bill. He has to assent and will assent. There is no time limit. But this delay cannot be equated to pocket veto. Nature of pocket veto is different n applicable only for ordinary Bill. A mere delay cannot qualify for veto
No disagree here... In class while discussion faculty pointed that until constitution say no, prez is very much allowed to exploit grey area... Money bill can be vetoed... It doesn't happen generally bc he had aprroved earlier... But nothing binding on him... U cab very well research..
Constitution has not mentioned explicitly whether money bill can be vetoed or not.
But, if president vetoes, it's going against hill will. So , though constitution has not mentioned, it should be understood that money bill cannot be vetoed. Vetoing money bill is not grey area. It's implicit.
When constitution doesnt restrict prez frm doing, then he can very well exercise it no matter if he approved before. Generally doesnt happen cos he is taken into confidence before but he is very much allowed to. So lets not make any judgement ..he can veto. Quote any expert/source which says he cant... just convention which is followed.
I agree, it's wrong judgement that he cannot veto. What @Wakaao said is right.
Copying statement from DD Basu
" .. it seems that the Indian president would be able to exercise something like a pocket veto, by simply keeping the bill on his desk for an indefinite time, particularly, if he finds ministry is shaky.." To note, author says, 'something like a pocket veto'. Because, pocket veto in American constitution clearly gives only 10 days of time.such things not codified in Indian constitution.
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Power of pocket veto is derived from Suspensive Veto
How?
Ur interpretation is correct if it was like this, "President give assent or reject a bill within x days or return the bill for reconsideration as soon as possible"
It's not the case, for returning it's mentioned as soon as possible ok, what for giving assent or withhold? It's not given. So pocket veto exist because there is no time limit for ANY of President's action on ANY bill.
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Comments
Prez can do 3 things when he receives a bill:
1. give assent
2. withhold assent --- Absolute Veto
3. return it ( if it is not money bill) --- Suspensive Veto
Suspensive Veto CANNOT be used in case of money bill. Power of pocket veto is derived from Suspensive Veto- WHY??? - exact phrase used in Art 111 is - " as soon as possible" which gives Prez a discretionary power- he can decide what is soon/early, so he can sit as long as he pleases --> this only translate into a pocket veto.Why I am saying this because - In USA, on the other hand, the president has to return the bill for reconsideration within 10 days. Hence, it is remarked that the pocket of the Indian President is bigger than that of the American President. Means in US a time frame is given within which Prez has to decide if the bill has to be returned for reconsideration - In India - phrase used is " as soon as possible" so NO such time limit given.
So pocket veto cannot be used in case of money bill.
This is what i understand, i hope it helps.
Article 111. Assent to Bills When a Bill has been passed by the Houses of Parliament, it shall be presented to the President, and the President shall declare either that he assents to the Bill, or that he withholds assent therefrom Provided that the President may, as soon as possible after the presentation to him of a Bill for assent, return the Bill if it is not a Money Bill to the Houses with a message requesting that they will reconsider the Bill or any specified provisions thereof and, in particular, will consider the desirability of introducing any such amendments as he may recommend in his message, and when a Bill is so returned, the Houses shall reconsider the Bill accordingly, and if the Bill is passed again by the Houses with or without amendment and presented to the President for assent, the President shall not withhold assent therefrom Procedures in Financial Matters.
_________________
There is no time limit for anything - giving assent, withholding, returning bill, deciding mercy petition etc.
Not like because of suspense veto (return as soon as possible) pocket veto exist. For other actions also time limit not fixed.
Even for Constitution Amendment Bill CoM cannot prescribe a time limit for giving assent. If President inordinately delay his constitutional duties it's violation (impeachment or SC introducing new interpretation like mercy petition delay they commuted death penalty)
I agree, it's wrong judgement that he cannot veto. What @Wakaao said is right.
Copying statement from DD Basu
" .. it seems that the Indian president would be able to exercise something like a pocket veto, by simply keeping the bill on his desk for an indefinite time, particularly, if he finds ministry is shaky.."
To note, author says, 'something like a pocket veto'. Because, pocket veto in American constitution clearly gives only 10 days of time.such things not codified in Indian constitution.
"President give assent or reject a bill within x days or return the bill for reconsideration as soon as possible"
It's not the case, for returning it's mentioned as soon as possible ok, what for giving assent or withhold?
It's not given.
So pocket veto exist because there is no time limit for ANY of President's action on ANY bill.