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@cito So you say all the muslims groups have both tolerant and bigoted members and you underline it as if to potray that you have an open mindset. That point is well taken. But then you yourself blatantly paint with the same brush millions of members of VHP and BJP and RSS as intolerant. Just one question, do you think every member of BJP VHP RSS is intolerant and only "some" members of deobandis are? Because then that'll prove just how illiterate you are. How do you conclude every member of them to be a fascist?
Millions of poisoned minds? Are you serious? Did millions of hindu poisoned minds start killing minorities? Have you counted the millions? If there is one religion that can attract and poison millions of minds it is misinterpreted Islam. We have well educated youths with no financial issues, software developers, technicians working in Banglore and Hyderabad flying off to join ISIS. Don't try with me the underdevelopment card.
You must be one of those "Its BJP- its communal- ergo its fascist". Maybe you could better explain how percentage of muslims has risen from 12 to 15% since independence. And percentage of hindus has decreased from 15 to 2.1% in pakistan.
Now to your question about muslims not having a strong group. It is because of their population. If they were in place of hindus having 80% population they would have the same backing and same amount of support. Perhaps even more fascist as is evident in Pakistan's case where hindu population dwindled from 15% to single digit percentage. Now you'll see for yourself in future how India not only tolerates islam but also makes it an integral part of it.
That is the country that we are. If millions of poisoned hindu fascist minds existed, indian muslims would also have fled to europe as refugees. I get it that you are trying to make a point but don't exaggerate the issue. Trust the government for once, try to look at the positives. I can tell you it is doing a better job than UPA 2 even if it is not flawless.
i expect only one thing from CITO complete silence.......these type of sickulars only believe in hit and run..theory....
as we are taking on intolerance ...some where somebody is planning to attack kafirs and kill them....and they call it religion of peace..............it is already breaking our world ito pieces....barbarian cult
The Sanghis within the BJP thought that they'll create a climate of hate and ill will,that they'll play their old game of pitching hindus against muslims and that they'll instigate the minority to react and riot..the country will burn,passions will rise and BJP will consolidate and hold on to power misusing the vulnerabilities of the masses.
Unfortunately for them that did not happen. All their propaganda remained more or less futile and to make matters worse for them it is the 'sickular' (what an infantile pathetic attempt at word play that is) Hindus who spoke up and condemned these deranged maniacs and stood up for tolerance and harmony.
BJP just hasn't been able to catch the pulse of the country they forget it's not 1992 any more, people have evolved and moved on to grapple with more serious and far more real issues.
@Lorelei problem is with you lot. Your pseudo intellectual pretence based on a myth that majority bashing will earn you brownie points. The reality that you subject yourself to is enclosed within the realms of religion. Your arguments start and end there. INTOLERANCE. More than the sanghis, it is you lot who have a closed mindset that obviates any need to look or hear the other point of view. Any other view contradictory to yours and you'll label them RSS ke gunday, hindu taliban and what not.
Again. 1992. You seem to dwell too much in history, not so much in the present and future. You probably hate on the fact that nathuram godse killed your beloved mahatma gandhi ergo you hate RSS ergo BJP and sanghis are communal. Even if I tell you his action was political rather than religious, you will still be in denial because you just love to potray the hindu groups as the sole cause of every catastrophe faced by the nation. And if people have become so evolved then how come the same BJP earned at outright majority an year back? Your reasoning fails on so many levels. Step above bipin chandra and leftists and "the hindu" dialogues and step into the reality which is not so grave as you make it out to be. No one wants the nation to burn.
@K9 The reason BJP came to power was because of anti incumbency, people thought BJP had evolved too but alas!
Also what do you go on about majority bashing? does criticising the RSS ideologue tantamount to majority bashing? Stop flattering yourself,yours is an ideology prevalent in couple of north indian states only so stop trying to shove it down the throats of all hindus you are not even close to majority.
And why not 1992? You have dehumanised the minority so you don't give a damn but not everyone harbors the same amount of prejudice including most of the hindus. So yes 1992. Again.
@ k9 1) I think I have already explained why it should be counted from 1951 and not 1947. According to pakistan census figures, the present hindu population is 1.9% which has remained fairly constant over time since 1951 for West Pakistan. So, admit that you were merely spouting hearsay about 15%, which was the figure in pre-1947 period.
2) I didnt mean newspaper columnists and writers, but the people commenting on them, and these are openly inflammatory. Go check comments under any TOI, Hindu or IExpress article with a muslim angle. And btw, why do you think many columnists and writers have been writing about hindutva extremism? No-one opposing them has been able to show they are lying. I know it hurts the ego of many people in this country confident with the righteous self-image of a great and tolerant people.
3) Millions of hindus dont mean all or even most hindus. There are all sorts of all people in all religions. But be assured it's not just, as you claim, a question of one or two hindus giving an inflammatory remark. I think I have already explained earlier why this has happened.
@Lorelei Hahaha. Anti incumbency? You say that to convince me or yourself? Everywhere 95% of the public was shouting abki baar modi sarkaar. And please don't equate me with the "fringe elements of the sanghis", I was not a modi bhakt either before elections nor am I now. Infact, I criticize modi on numerous other grounds including his much hyped yet flawed gujrat model. But I see other avenues for a debate than mere religious rhetoric.
What I don't like is you trying to potray one entire group as an intolerant. There are many "sanghis" who are progressive and have not based their actions on hindutva ideology. Try not to generalize the group but the ideology. You can fault the ideology and on that I am with you, Hindutva ideology is wrong for a secular nation but there are many within the sangh who are trying to change that. That narrow minded thinking. By classifying them as a group you basically potray everyone in the sangh as evil. That means everyone from atal bihari vajpayee to arun shourie and such intelluctuals are narrow minded in your opinion. That way I too can generalize and equate terrorism with islam. But I choose to criticize the terrorist ideology and not a group.
@K9
95%? Really? I thought BJP garnered some 31% of the vote share.
Coming to RSS, you see RSS is an organisation whose raison d'etre, the very basis of it's existence is Hindutva and to establish this country as a homogenous monocultured nation. For someone like me who cherishes the diversity of this country,that is indeed very problematic. So even if there are a mortley group of intellectuals who are a part of this organisation to me it is irrelevant, as the hindutva agenda is too prominent and too stark for me to look away and towards those intellectuals.
You may please go ahead and criticise the terrorist outfits in Islam I'll be the last one to stop you but most of the comments on this and other such threads absolutely reek of a generalised and intense hatred for the entire Muslim community and that is what disgusts me. Especially on a forum representing aspirants of civil services such attitudes are heinous to say the least.
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Unfortunately for them that did not happen. All their propaganda remained more or less futile and to make matters worse for them it is the 'sickular' (what an infantile pathetic attempt at word play that is) Hindus who spoke up and condemned these deranged maniacs and stood up for tolerance and harmony.
BJP just hasn't been able to catch the pulse of the country they forget it's not 1992 any more, people have evolved and moved on to grapple with more serious and far more real issues.
Again. 1992. You seem to dwell too much in history, not so much in the present and future. You probably hate on the fact that nathuram godse killed your beloved mahatma gandhi ergo you hate RSS ergo BJP and sanghis are communal. Even if I tell you his action was political rather than religious, you will still be in denial because you just love to potray the hindu groups as the sole cause of every catastrophe faced by the nation. And if people have become so evolved then how come the same BJP earned at outright majority an year back? Your reasoning fails on so many levels. Step above bipin chandra and leftists and "the hindu" dialogues and step into the reality which is not so grave as you make it out to be. No one wants the nation to burn.
Also what do you go on about majority bashing? does criticising the RSS ideologue tantamount to majority bashing? Stop flattering yourself,yours is an ideology prevalent in couple of north indian states only so stop trying to shove it down the throats of all hindus you are not even close to majority.
And why not 1992? You have dehumanised the minority so you don't give a damn but not everyone harbors the same amount of prejudice including most of the hindus. So yes 1992. Again.
1) I think I have already explained why it should be counted from 1951 and not 1947. According to pakistan census figures, the present hindu population is 1.9% which has remained fairly constant over time since 1951 for West Pakistan. So, admit that you were merely spouting hearsay about 15%, which was the figure in pre-1947 period.
2) I didnt mean newspaper columnists and writers, but the people commenting on them, and these are openly inflammatory. Go check comments under any TOI, Hindu or IExpress article with a muslim angle.
And btw, why do you think many columnists and writers have been writing about hindutva extremism? No-one opposing them has been able to show they are lying. I know it hurts the ego of many people in this country confident with the righteous self-image of a great and tolerant people.
3) Millions of hindus dont mean all or even most hindus. There are all sorts of all people in all religions. But be assured it's not just, as you claim, a question of one or two hindus giving an inflammatory remark. I think I have already explained earlier why this has happened.
What I don't like is you trying to potray one entire group as an intolerant. There are many "sanghis" who are progressive and have not based their actions on hindutva ideology. Try not to generalize the group but the ideology. You can fault the ideology and on that I am with you, Hindutva ideology is wrong for a secular nation but there are many within the sangh who are trying to change that. That narrow minded thinking. By classifying them as a group you basically potray everyone in the sangh as evil. That means everyone from atal bihari vajpayee to arun shourie and such intelluctuals are narrow minded in your opinion. That way I too can generalize and equate terrorism with islam. But I choose to criticize the terrorist ideology and not a group.
95%? Really? I thought BJP garnered some 31% of the vote share.
Coming to RSS, you see RSS is an organisation whose raison d'etre, the very basis of it's existence is Hindutva and to establish this country as a homogenous monocultured nation. For someone like me who cherishes the diversity of this country,that is indeed very problematic. So even if there are a mortley group of intellectuals who are a part of this organisation to me it is irrelevant, as the hindutva agenda is too prominent and too stark for me to look away and towards those intellectuals.
You may please go ahead and criticise the terrorist outfits in Islam I'll be the last one to stop you but most of the comments on this and other such threads absolutely reek of a generalised and intense hatred for the entire Muslim community and that is what disgusts me. Especially on a forum representing aspirants of civil services such attitudes are heinous to say the least.