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Can we still call Gandhi "mahatma" in light of new revelations?

today is 71st death anniversary of mahatma gandhi. his contribution to india and humanity is humongous. but lately some facts have emerged that is very hard to reconcile with and they put his followers in quandary. facts related to his sexual experiments with his nieces and his racist remarks in south Africa. i want to how his ardent supporters and followers should view him in light of the new revelations. isn't calling him mahatma an injustice to those young girls who were hapless victims of his "experiments"? i am sharing some links
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Comments

  • BJP waalo bhago yahan se .... Spread propaganda elsewhere
  • Idolize the good things in man not the man himself.
    Indians are racist that's am irrefutable fact. And anyone born in such a society is bound to be racist, what matters is whether the individual continues to be racist even after he is exposed to reason, and moral thoughts.
    Maybe Young Gandhi was a racist , but did he die a racist that's the question.
  • chuds said:

    BJP waalo bhago yahan se .... Spread propaganda elsewhere

    dude, i am myself his ardent supporter. that's it becomes even more important to view things in perspective.
  • _k_ said:

    Idolize the good things in man not the man himself.
    Indians are racist that's am irrefutable fact. And anyone born in such a society is bound to be racist, what matters is whether the individual continues to be racist even after he is exposed to reason, and moral thoughts.
    Maybe Young Gandhi was a racist , but did he die a racist that's the question.

    hmm. so that in a way is a great thing. it only illustrates gandhi was an ordinary being mired in regular prejudices and biases. but he evolved to be a better man. but what was his opinion of Africans in his older days?
  • This debate itselc is illogical , what the man did in her personal time must not be the concern. What he was able to achive is what matters
    HUSTLE
  • krr said:

    today is 71st death anniversary of mahatma gandhi. his contribution to india and humanity is humongous. but lately some facts have emerged that is very hard to reconcile with and they put his followers in quandary. facts related to his sexual experiments with his nieces and his racist remarks in south Africa. i want to how his ardent supporters and followers should view him in light of the new revelations. isn't calling him mahatma an injustice to those young girls who were hapless victims of his "experiments"? i am sharing some links

    How are they 'new revelations'? If anything, these are quite old. Also, if you read his autobiography, you'll find that he was just an ordinary man with the same desires and prejudices. It is his fight for what he believed was right and the way he achieved that which are the reasons he is known as Mahatma. I admire Mahatma Gandhi a lot but consider his views on food extreme bulls***! There's a lot to learn from his life, focus on that.

    Advise that all the people who haven't read The Story of My Experiments with Truth by MK Gandhi, read the book.
    Prelims - 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018
    Mains - 2016 | 2017 | 2018
    Interview - 2016 | 2017 | 2018
    Final list - X
  • krr said:

    today is 71st death anniversary of mahatma gandhi. his contribution to india and humanity is humongous. but lately some facts have emerged that is very hard to reconcile with and they put his followers in quandary. facts related to his sexual experiments with his nieces and his racist remarks in south Africa. i want to how his ardent supporters and followers should view him in light of the new revelations. isn't calling him mahatma an injustice to those young girls who were hapless victims of his "experiments"? i am sharing some links

    see... the moment u question or doubt mr mahatama.... u are out of cse race... u like it or not.... if u do not believe me then u have 6 attempts to test this hypothesis ...
    ATB
  • edited January 30
    krr said:
    krr said:
    all these kind of or any kind of info about mahatama that u claim u know... is available for us to read or know, because mahatama allowed these infos to be registered.... these are not leaks ...as it usually happens .... mr gandhi is mahatama because he was true ....... i do not have that much of courage yet , to be that much true .... so ....
  • edited January 30
    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...
  • chuds said:

    BJP waalo bhago yahan se .... Spread propaganda elsewhere

    plz try to be reasonable .... who said u that BJP hates mr gandhi... dont opinionate based on the dreams u see at night and treat them as ur experience when under the sun
  • poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
  • _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    i too have read so ... but even when it is available ... literates of india say things that make sure that many stay away from sanskrit,.... sad state of affairs for india
  • _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
  • The problem today is first we paint the personality according to our own biases and then we pinpoint the good or bad things which suit our argument.
    36 ka aankda with upsc
  • complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
  • _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    bhai u r men... plz speak for men... bhaad me jane do abla naariyon ko :trollface:
  • poppins said:

    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    bhai u r men... plz speak for men... bhaad me jane do abla naariyon ko :trollface:
    did you just assume my gender ?? :trollface:
  • edited January 30
    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    Sanskrit was never the langue of masses be it in any caste and during any period.
    Women constituted around half of the population but those women included in all Varnas. So its not related to varna dharma in any way. If we consider varna dharma, then only shudras were excluded but they too since early medieval India and beginning of kali age were not prohibited from reading any scripture.

    Bhakti during medieval age used vernacular language. Bhakti in early medieval age used sanskrit. For example Shankaracharya, Madhava, dvait advait etc all were propagated in sanskrit language. No prohibition for any caste reading sanskrit. This is given in any standard history book including NCERTs.
  • edited January 30
    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    bhai u r men... plz speak for men... bhaad me jane do abla naariyon ko :trollface:
    did you just assume my gender ?? :trollface:
    i hoped :sweat_smile:

    abla i said because, jo apne liye apna haak ke liye aawaj nahi utha sakta... usko dusre kya iijjat dengen
  • _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    bhai u r men... plz speak for men... bhaad me jane do abla naariyon ko :trollface:
    did you just assume my gender ?? :trollface:
    Bhai ji ab ladake ki photo lagaya hai aapne to ladaka hi samajhenge na log. :tongue:
  • complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    bhai u r men... plz speak for men... bhaad me jane do abla naariyon ko :trollface:
    did you just assume my gender ?? :trollface:
    Bhai ji ab ladake ki photo lagaya hai aapne to ladaka hi samajhenge na log. :tongue:
    :+1:
    bilkul :mrgreen:
  • complex said:

    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    Sanskrit was never the langue of masses be it in any caste and during any period.
    Women constituted around half of the population but those women included in all Varnas. So its not related to varna dharma in any way. If we consider varna dharma, then only shudras were excluded but they too since early medieval India and beginning of kali age were not prohibited from reading any scripture.

    Bhakti during medieval age used vernacular language. Bhakti in early medieval age used sanskrit. For example Shankaracharya, Madhava, dvait advait etc all were propagated in sanskrit language. No prohibition for any caste reading sanskrit. This is given in any standard history book including NCERTs.
    now you say it I do remember going bonkers over duality non-duality or something like that , maybe you are right :confused:
  • poppins said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    _k_ said:

    complex said:

    _k_ said:

    poppins said:

    we indians are so much in fond of every thing external of india, specially from so called 1st world countries that ...ooooo god .... we even ourself think subconsciously , outsiders are better than us all respect ....
    i feel sick by such indians who are just forced because of their gene and skin colour to be called indian...

    eg: most of us hate sanskrit, for many reasons told by foreign historians , but germany is fan of sanskrit...

    hey I heard most of us were prohibited from reading Sanskrit as it would have eroded the principle of varna dharma . is it true ??
    Not most of us. Only Shudras and women. That too since later Vedic period till post gupta period. Since early medieval era with arrival of islam and bhakti these restrictions evaporated. Besides these restrictions were not enforced strictly in the first place.

    In Europe in as late as 16th century a man was burnt alive just because he said that earth wasn’t centre of universe.
    women not permitted = there goes nearly 40% population even by conservative estimates :trollface: if we add shudras I guess majority would be in excluded category. Or maybe not?
    wese I haven't read history in any of my 2 attempts but I remeber reading somewhere that bhakti saints used local languages rather than sanskrit for bringing the message of divine to common folks. Is it true ?
    bhai u r men... plz speak for men... bhaad me jane do abla naariyon ko :trollface:
    did you just assume my gender ?? :trollface:
    Bhai ji ab ladake ki photo lagaya hai aapne to ladaka hi samajhenge na log. :tongue:
    :+1:
    bilkul :mrgreen:
    I identify myself as a furry :trollface:
  • krr said:

    today is 71st death anniversary of mahatma gandhi. his contribution to india and humanity is humongous. but lately some facts have emerged that is very hard to reconcile with and they put his followers in quandary. facts related to his sexual experiments with his nieces and his racist remarks in south Africa. i want to how his ardent supporters and followers should view him in light of the new revelations. isn't calling him mahatma an injustice to those young girls who were hapless victims of his "experiments"? i am sharing some links

    Answer to your question depends on two things 1. how we define anyone 'being a mahatma' ? and 2. how much do we know about him ?
    Hum waha hai jaha se humko bhi kuch hamari khabar nahi aati.
  • There is no doubt that Gandhiji indeed was a Mahatma ie Great Soul.He was the greatest mass leader India ever produced and the one who brought freedom struggle from boisterous and pompous annual meetings of some eminent lawyers to real masses.

    Regarding so called revealtions:
    1.Brahmacharya experiment:His life was open book.What he did was never in secrecy.For a man who was deeply guilt ridden in subconscious(he was lusting after his wife when his father died),it is not surprising he was attracted to celibacy.
    (Just like Aurangjeb who tried to erase his sins of fratricide and patricide by shunning all luxuries and living pious life).

    2.Racism: This was in 19th century remember?Those days racial science was part of mainstream science and it was universally acknowledged that blacks were savage,barbarian and in fact white man's burden.
    Never mind the allied propaganda,Britain and America were as racist as Nazi Germany,if not more.(Jesse Owens praised Nazi regime's treatment while criticising his own country's apathy.Oh the irony that we read exactly the opposite!!!)

    Till Gandhiji was in incharge of struggle,party and movement's ideal were rooted in Bharat.But after WW2,it was taken over by Brown Sahibs like Nehru and thus,we have attained only political freedom.All the British raj institutions and Brown Sahibs continue to reign over India.
  • He accepts he's not perfect. Nothing new in this.
    2017,2018 : P+M.
    Anthropology
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