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Any Benefit of Permanent Seat in UN Securtity Council without a Veto?

edited October 2015 in Current Affairs
India has accepted position of UNSC reform where new permanent member will not have veto. What is the benefit of this, if any?

Comments

  • edited September 2015
    Show-sha and Halla gulla by Bjp in India..O...what a bloody achvmt by M0d!..How he has changed world politics..How he brought the world powers to his knees..Fodder for his bhakts to vent their anger on nehru and eulogise m0d!. Nothing else..Permanent seat without Veto is useless.

    Me feels veto system should be disbanded and majority voting system should be introduced. On equal division votes of non permanent members can be sought.
  • India should call back all its UN peace forces.... No need to sacrifice our soldiers when their is no hearing of India on world plateform of security
  • What about radical step of withdrawal of representatives by G-4 from UN itself to put pressure and demand inclusion with Veto?
  • India should call back all its UN peace forces.... No need to sacrifice our soldiers when their is no hearing of India on world plateform of security
    lol
    peacekeeping forces are for money (high salary plus benefits) plus strategic interests in other parts of the world especially africa..in Fact many working in military and paramilitary happily wants to go there because of higher salary...even IPS officers also take part there...life is more secure while operating as part of peacekeeping force than working somewhere near indo-pak border...
    Our survival instinct is our single greatest source of inspiration. - Dr. Mann
  • edited September 2015
    There will be no benefit. I personally feel that India has no right to be a permanent member apart from our size of population and economy.

    UNSC is to get into core political, security issues. Look at India's history. We are always shy getting into any real political, sensitive issues. Be it Iran nuclear deal, fighting Islamic state, US sanctions on Russia, even we citizens of India don't know if our country is supporting Israel or Palestine :D

    As far as i know we have never ever entered into serious political/security issues in international arena. But we enter with great joy when it comes to economic issues, since we have great market.

    But we want a permanent member seat in UN even without Veto...why? to advertise! I would rather say that it is shameful to agree to have permanent membership w/o Veto.

    I feel that all the present working diplomats should be sacked. They are all highly conservative and want to self promote and show the world that they are great in literature, history or arts. They must work for India not to self promote them.

    Till this time, they are selected only because they are good in English. Many may confront me, but this is the truth.
  • India should have allied with the US long ago instead of opting path for NAM or later with the soviet union.
    Shashi Tharoor has also mentioned about this...we should have alliance...then we won't have to use most of our resources for defence..
    Regarding getting UNSC permanent seat even without veto, India would get a better position in world affairs. Veto thing can be dealt with it later. Veto power is not the only important thing in UN.
    Our survival instinct is our single greatest source of inspiration. - Dr. Mann
  • edited September 2015
    India should have allied with the US long ago instead of opting path for NAM or later with the soviet union.
    Shashi Tharoor has also mentioned about this...we should have alliance...then we won't have to use most of our resources for defence..
    Regarding getting UNSC permanent seat even without veto, India would get a better position in world affairs. Veto thing can be dealt with it later. Veto power is not the only important thing in UN.
    Why people are always complaining nehru for every failure in india. For slow economy thye complian nehru's socialistic policies, for foreign policy failure again complain NAM.

    At least during NAM we raised our voices against both US and soviet. But after Nehru, we are always shy.

    Nehru died in 1964. India traveled 50 years w/o him. Dont accuse him for every failure.
  • Have a Booming economy along with this build a strong military muscle. Have a real blue water navy and have cutting edge technology. By this I mean real muscle. This way become a de facto Veto holder.
    Let's face it Britain and France may have Veto in UNSC but everyone knows who is the boss in Europe ( Germany). Without a diversified economy Russia has been reduced to younger sister of China.
    If India build a strong economy then UNSC will be irrelevant if they don't give rightful place to India.
    BTW, we all know words like largest contributor to UN peacekeeping forces, democratic deficit in UNSC, denial of representation to 1.21 billion population and all are bull shit , they don't carry weight in IR.
  • India should have allied with the US long ago instead of opting path for NAM or later with the soviet union.
    Shashi Tharoor has also mentioned about this...we should have alliance...then we won't have to use most of our resources for defence..
    Regarding getting UNSC permanent seat even without veto, India would get a better position in world affairs. Veto thing can be dealt with it later. Veto power is not the only important thing in UN.
    Why people are always complaining nehru for every failure in india. For slow economy thye complian nehru's socialistic policies, for foreign policy failure again complain NAM.

    At least during NAM we raised our voices against both US and soviet. But after Nehru, we are always shy.

    Nehru died in 1964. India traveled 50 years w/o him. Dont accuse him for every failure.
    I am not accusing him for failure...He was a visionary but his actions were based on principles rather than pragmatic in foreign policy....I am just pouring my opinion but won't write this in exam that NAM was a mistake......
    Our survival instinct is our single greatest source of inspiration. - Dr. Mann
  • Have a Booming economy along with this build a strong military muscle. Have a real blue water navy and have cutting edge technology. By this I mean real muscle. This way become a de facto Veto holder.
    Let's face it Britain and France may have Veto in UNSC but everyone knows who is the boss in Europe ( Germany). Without a diversified economy Russia has been reduced to younger sister of China.
    If India build a strong economy then UNSC will be irrelevant if they don't give rightful place to India.
    BTW, we all know words like largest contributor to UN peacekeeping forces, democratic deficit in UNSC, denial of representation to 1.21 billion population and all are bull shit , they don't carry weight in IR.
    yeah convergent with my views too.. look at south korea, small country but big economy... have a greater say in global affairs
    Our survival instinct is our single greatest source of inspiration. - Dr. Mann
  • India should call back all its UN peace forces.... No need to sacrifice our soldiers when their is no hearing of India on world plateform of security
    Actually no... that would be a stupid move...
    All soldiers are paid by UN and salary is much higher than the regular army salary.. and hence India has such huge force for peace keeping... infact many soldiers want to join these UN force for high salary...
    It also bring remittance in the country hence hard currency...
    It provide india strategic leverage in the UN, and in the war torne country , also it provided the soft power projection over the ppl of the nation where the soldiers are placed. And this helps in the long run. Say for the role of soldiers in helping, evacuating or sheltering ppl in war torn area..
    It provided the co-operation among the soldiers from different country providing learning opportunity(little effect)..
    India is only 2nd in providing peace mission force to UN nxt only to Bangladesh...
    I vow to win.... !!!
  • Have a Booming economy along with this build a strong military muscle. Have a real blue water navy and have cutting edge technology. By this I mean real muscle. This way become a de facto Veto holder.
    Let's face it Britain and France may have Veto in UNSC but everyone knows who is the boss in Europe ( Germany). Without a diversified economy Russia has been reduced to younger sister of China.
    If India build a strong economy then UNSC will be irrelevant if they don't give rightful place to India.
    BTW, we all know words like largest contributor to UN peacekeeping forces, democratic deficit in UNSC, denial of representation to 1.21 billion population and all are bull shit , they don't carry weight in IR.
    yeah convergent with my views too.. look at south korea, small country but big economy... have a greater say in global affairs
    We are lacking ambition as a nation. With skilful use of resuorces our 'near abroad' can be our 'Backyard'. But see our ambition, we can not Nepal to toe our line and we want all the privileges of Horse shoe table at the UN.

    BTW India , China, South Korea were at the same level of development in 1960's. They have surged ahead while we are still singing praises for 'Democracy'. If any one point development of China, Indians will say we have democracy. Soon ,India will be paying for western worlds pollution via legally binding targets without using our 'Legitimate ' carbon space. Again we will be singing praises for humanity and mother earth.
  • Have a Booming economy along with this build a strong military muscle. Have a real blue water navy and have cutting edge technology. By this I mean real muscle. This way become a de facto Veto holder.
    Let's face it Britain and France may have Veto in UNSC but everyone knows who is the boss in Europe ( Germany). Without a diversified economy Russia has been reduced to younger sister of China.
    If India build a strong economy then UNSC will be irrelevant if they don't give rightful place to India.
    BTW, we all know words like largest contributor to UN peacekeeping forces, democratic deficit in UNSC, denial of representation to 1.21 billion population and all are bull shit , they don't carry weight in IR.
    yeah convergent with my views too.. look at south korea, small country but big economy... have a greater say in global affairs
    We are lacking ambition as a nation. With skilful use of resuorces our 'near abroad' can be our 'Backyard'. But see our ambition, we can not Nepal to toe our line and we want all the privileges of Horse shoe table at the UN.

    BTW India , China, South Korea were at the same level of development in 1960's. They have surged ahead while we are still singing praises for 'Democracy'. If any one point development of China, Indians will say we have democracy. Soon ,India will be paying for western worlds pollution via legally binding targets without using our 'Legitimate ' carbon space. Again we will be singing praises for humanity and mother earth.
  • edited September 2015
    India should call back all its UN peace forces.... No need to sacrifice our soldiers when their is no hearing of India on world plateform of security
    Actually no... that would be a stupid move...
    All soldiers are paid by UN and salary is much higher than the regular army salary.. and hence India has such huge force for peace keeping... infact many soldiers want to join these UN force for high salary...
    It also bring remittance in the country hence hard currency...
    It provide india strategic leverage in the UN, and in the war torne country , also it provided the soft power projection over the ppl of the nation where the soldiers are placed. And this helps in the long run. Say for the role of soldiers in helping, evacuating or sheltering ppl in war torn area..
    It provided the co-operation among the soldiers from different country providing learning opportunity(little effect)..
    India is only 2nd in providing peace mission force to UN nxt only to Bangladesh...
    one of ur arguments that since UN salaries bring remittance we shd not leave is funny! Please dont incude this while answering in the exam :D
  • What about radical step of withdrawal of representatives by G-4 from UN itself to put pressure and demand inclusion with Veto?
  • but has India accepted seat without veto?is this the official position? proof please!
  • What about radical step of withdrawal of representatives by G-4 from UN itself to put pressure and demand inclusion with Veto?
    it will matter when India will be $30 trillion economy. Otherwise no issue. BTW often UN is used as a tool to give legitimacy to western interventions. otherwise UN is useless.
    BTW in G4 , Germany has no realistic chance for UNSC permanent seat.
    Better option would be make UN irrelevant and create your own club.
  • but has India accepted seat without veto?is this the official position? proof please!
    Yes, In recent adopted text based discussion on reform in UN, India accepted that it won't demand veto but only Permanent seat.
  • but has India accepted seat without veto?is this the official position? proof please!
    Yes, In recent adopted text based discussion on reform in UN, India accepted that it won't demand veto but only Permanent seat.
    please post the link!!
  • but has India accepted seat without veto?is this the official position? proof please!
    Yes, In recent adopted text based discussion on reform in UN, India accepted that it won't demand veto but only Permanent seat.
    please post the link!!

    Lo Bhai,

    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/reform-eludes-un-security-council/article7659944.ece
  • but has India accepted seat without veto?is this the official position? proof please!
    Yes, In recent adopted text based discussion on reform in UN, India accepted that it won't demand veto but only Permanent seat.
    please post the link!!

    Lo Bhai,

    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/reform-eludes-un-security-council/article7659944.ece
    mr.himalaya singh ,it isn't the official position! diplomacy doesn't work like this!
    I have read the official text(sept 14) on UN website. All countries have made their statements!
    so before posting please make sure the basic premise is based on the official position.
    And this applies to all who have accepted this premise and posted suggestions.
    there were plenty of plans apart from G4 plan which suggested expansion without veto,but due to the universal unacceptance ,these weren't accepted!
  • edited September 2015
    What about radical step of withdrawal of representatives by G-4 from UN itself to put pressure and demand inclusion with Veto?
    Path for G4 has huge obstacles...Germany being opposed by Italy, Brazil being opposed by latin america,argentina and mexico, Japan being opposed by china and s.korea, India being opposed by Pakistan. Apart from this there is opposition from africa too .The african nations too claim a seat since no african country has a seat there despite being one of the largest continent.

    withdrawal from G4 will be self defeat......opposition group known as Uniting for Consensus or coffee club will be happy (pakistan being happiest)....regarding support for India's permanent seat, all the four permanent members support it..while china is ambiguous on this issue because of presence of Japan within G4 and due to all weather friend pakistan. Though china has neither expressed its stand whether it supports or opposes, some argue that China supports at individual level but not as a group due to presence of japan.
    However in order to show its interests, mere dialogue will not suffice..India should increase its role on international platforms, join hand against global terrorism, be more active in global arena like recent Iran deal, international space station, increase its global funding in the UN and other countries for increasing diplomatic ties etc.
    India should also voice for permanent seat individually. Sometimes because of involving in a group it may bring greater harm since other countries may just oppose G4 as a whole even if they don't oppose India individually.
    Our survival instinct is our single greatest source of inspiration. - Dr. Mann
  • global politics being too complex and selfish. We can know about this during the election of shashi tharoor for secretary general post in the UN. S. korea buyed votes , the US wanted a outsider (of UN) whom they can easily control. US was unhappy with koffi Annan and tharoor was a follower of him.
    Our survival instinct is our single greatest source of inspiration. - Dr. Mann
  • i was watching a real dicussion on NDTV yesterday, here are the key points.
    1) G4 gives more money to UN then security council excluding USA.
    2)talks are still on and the veto question has not been decided.(i think the OP has incorrect info).
    3)If we accept a lolipop reform, then forget any real reform till next 50 yrs .
    4)G4 was falling apart till 2010, but now it is coming back together.
    5)China is trying to block the reform by talking with african union( by bribing them of course).India is also talking with africa union. but i dont think we can give as much money as china.
    6)pakistan ki hamesha ki tarah fati padi h.
    7)Russia will probably support us, because we stood by them during sanction.
    8)Germany and japan are strong contenders, India is not leader of G4.
    9)Obama is lame duck president, so no need to take his stand seriously.
    my personal opinion- If Donal trump becomes president, USA and China will both create roadblocks.
  • Good points.

    However, Isn't getting something is better than nothing.
    I feel lot of countries which are in power don't want India or G-4 to see in UNSC
    If we can get permanent sea in next 2-5 years, we can push for veto after 15 year when our GDP will be 3rd largest in the world.
  • There can be a possibility of asking a question "the formation G4 infact could spoil India's chance in getting permanent membership in UNSC".

    * India should have been pressurizing alone. So that it would have won the support of all the developing countries.

    * Now the enemies of other 3 countries will oppose India too.

    * G4 doesn't have African representative. A huge setback.

    * Though Russia will support India, it is distancing itself from supporting other 3. Loosing Russia's support could completely eliminate India's chance to get into UNSC.


    In conclusion, India should have waited for some more time rather than hurrying for Permanent seat sans veto.


    If you got any opposing arguments, pls add.
  • Good points.
    However, Isn't getting something is better than nothing. .........
    If we make a compromise now, then maybe we wont get the real thing(veto) for a long time. India will become a tantrum throwing child who wants things done its way every now n then, at least thats what china will tell the world.
    I think we can wait a little longer if we can manage a better deal.
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