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Should you support the removal of 'optional' paper from the Civil Services Exam?

"The Curious Case of Baswan Committee Report"

#Baswan Committee #Optional Removal #Level playing field #Age limit

Many of the new kids and coaching institutes in Delhi are under the impression that UPSC can be intimidated by their protests and court cases; however, in the past all these protests has only led to the toughening of the process and pattern of the examination. For example for the people who demanded the removal of CSAT aptitude and English Paper found out that UPSC took a complete biased decision towards the convent school kids to make these papers qualifying and hitting a great blow to the underprivileged people who could not afford the private schools and engineering colleges to be that much proficient in both English and Maths to qualify.

Now those of you who have a good internet connection at home and have been taking part in the survey by Baswan commitee, and supported the removal of optional paper, however due to any reason there may be, thinking it may ease the burden of syllabus or probably were misled to do so by your institutes who claim to have deep understanding of the UPSC selection process and have "insider information" :smiley: are in for a great surprise in the coming years.

If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
It can clearly be seen from the ongoing Forest Services Exam pattern that aspirants who in the first place wanted less syllabus burden will be shocked the most and will end up giving not 1, nor 2 but many many optional exams as the seats are limited per service, and the student will have to give one related subject exam each for their selected preferences. Secondly, for the coaching classes who wanted to remove the faculty for different optional subjects to ease up their pockets will have to hire more permanent faculties. Three cheers for them :wink:

Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. Since these kids have seen more competition and are cream of you lot, will find it more easier to cram the easy stuff left after the removal (replacement) of the optionals. Don't get me wrong, but this is the bitter truth and you guys must swallow it.

Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.

Study now, give your everything to this exam. Because if you don't, you will find finally when you give up that you had given it everything you had eventually.
«1345

Comments

  • edited December 2017
    I think the committee's composition reveals it all. Mr. Baswan is an IAS officer (retd)and also former Director of IIPA, all others are also from IIPA R.K. Barik (Professor, IIPA), Akber Ali (research Officer, IIPA), and Pankaj Kumar Singh (Research Officer, IIPA).

    They would have definitely recommended PubAd paper for Administrative services. Or the purpose of selecting these people might be to recommend the inclusion of only those useful parts of PubAd and other papers. :neutral:
  • "UPSC Aspirant Must Read this to fetch good marks in Essay"......read this article on UC news By Voice of Young India
  • edited December 2017
    :) Optional is greatest gamble in all this great gamble game. So let genNext enjoy a more Level Playing field by replacing it with with "compulsory optional(s)". EVEN IF IT GET REPLACED BY 4 PAPERS !


    It was never about size. But about inter-optional and intra-optional variations. Baaki We All here Agree to Disagree ! :)


    #IStandForOptionalRemoval

    Being IAS... 4 U Onlyyy... :-)
  • "The Curious Case of Baswan Committee Report"

    #Baswan Committee #Optional Removal #Level playing field #Age limit

    Many of the new kids and coaching institutes in Delhi are under the impression that UPSC can be intimidated by their protests and court cases; however, in the past all these protests has only led to the toughening of the process and pattern of the examination. For example for the people who demanded the removal of CSAT aptitude and English Paper found out that UPSC took a complete biased decision towards the convent school kids to make these papers qualifying and hitting a great blow to the underprivileged people who could not afford the private schools and engineering colleges to be that much proficient in both English and Maths to qualify.

    Now those of you who have a good internet connection at home and have been taking part in the survey by Baswan commitee, and supported the removal of optional paper, however due to any reason there may be, thinking it may ease the burden of syllabus or probably were misled to do so by your institutes who claim to have deep understanding of the UPSC selection process and have "insider information" :smiley: are in for a great surprise in the coming years.

    If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
    It can clearly be seen from the ongoing Forest Services Exam pattern that aspirants who in the first place wanted less syllabus burden will be shocked the most and will end up giving not 1, nor 2 but many many optional exams as the seats are limited per service, and the student will have to give one related subject exam each for their selected preferences. Secondly, for the coaching classes who wanted to remove the faculty for different optional subjects to ease up their pockets will have to hire more permanent faculties. Three cheers for them :wink:

    Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. Since these kids have seen more competition and are cream of you lot, will find it more easier to cram the easy stuff left after the removal (replacement) of the optionals. Don't get me wrong, but this is the bitter truth and you guys must swallow it.

    Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.

    Study now, give your everything to this exam. Because if you don't, you will find finally when you give up that you had given it everything you had eventually.

    People are not expecting optional removal because it will "ease the burden". They are demanding because with different optionals candidates are being judged on different scales for the same exam process. It is almost impossible to maintain parity when differents subjects are marked. Therefore optional removal will make a level playing field. With new subjects the burden will remain same but at least it will equally shared by everyone.

    CSAT removal was demanded by hindi medium "non-convent" educated junta in your words. They got it. Now they need to qualify with just 66 marks out of 200 marks in a paper which tests you on 10th level mathematics and english. You have got a problem with that too. If one doesn't know the basic mathematics and language then how do you expect them to understand the policy analysis when they become administrators. Removal of CSAT is biggest blow to the "convent and engineering educated" and now they need to fight on equal terms with non english medium students on the basis of paper 1, you have got a problem with that too?

    If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
    What is wrong with this recommendation. Today someone educated in medicine gets suddenly dropped to revenue service while someone educated in comouter science suddenly finds himself in police service for which he might or might not have any aptitude. It would be a great step if domain specific exams are introduced for different services, atleast the people who are selected will be aware of the basics of their service rather than randomly paratrooping in them and then wondering if they were cut out for it or not.

    Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. I don't know from where are you getting your insights. Why would BA people expect that optional removal will decrease doctors and engineers after optional removal. Arts graduate are prime beneficiaries of optionals, why would they hope for its removal.

    Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.
    Perhaps you are the only person who is thinking that change is patters is going to benefit anyone. Aspirants just hope for a more objective exam and removal of optional will help in that. So it is my request to keyboard warriors like you to first understand the context before giving the call for revolution.

    If you are a "struggling student" (going by your id) then reason for it is that you don't know what you are struggling against. Get the right perspective and you may win over your struggles.
    Prelims:04 Mains:04* Interview:03
  • :) Optional is greatest gamble in all this great gamble game. So let genNext enjoy a more Level Playing field by replacing it with with "compulsory optional(s)". EVEN IF IT GET REPLACED BY 4 PAPERS !


    It was never about size. But about inter-optional and intra-optional variations. Baaki We All here Agree to Disagree ! :)


    #IStandForOptionalRemoval

    +1
    Now or Never
  • "The Curious Case of Baswan Committee Report"

    #Baswan Committee #Optional Removal #Level playing field #Age limit

    Many of the new kids and coaching institutes in Delhi are under the impression that UPSC can be intimidated by their protests and court cases; however, in the past all these protests has only led to the toughening of the process and pattern of the examination. For example for the people who demanded the removal of CSAT aptitude and English Paper found out that UPSC took a complete biased decision towards the convent school kids to make these papers qualifying and hitting a great blow to the underprivileged people who could not afford the private schools and engineering colleges to be that much proficient in both English and Maths to qualify.

    Now those of you who have a good internet connection at home and have been taking part in the survey by Baswan commitee, and supported the removal of optional paper, however due to any reason there may be, thinking it may ease the burden of syllabus or probably were misled to do so by your institutes who claim to have deep understanding of the UPSC selection process and have "insider information" :smiley: are in for a great surprise in the coming years.

    If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
    It can clearly be seen from the ongoing Forest Services Exam pattern that aspirants who in the first place wanted less syllabus burden will be shocked the most and will end up giving not 1, nor 2 but many many optional exams as the seats are limited per service, and the student will have to give one related subject exam each for their selected preferences. Secondly, for the coaching classes who wanted to remove the faculty for different optional subjects to ease up their pockets will have to hire more permanent faculties. Three cheers for them :wink:

    Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. Since these kids have seen more competition and are cream of you lot, will find it more easier to cram the easy stuff left after the removal (replacement) of the optionals. Don't get me wrong, but this is the bitter truth and you guys must swallow it.

    Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.

    Study now, give your everything to this exam. Because if you don't, you will find finally when you give up that you had given it everything you had eventually.

    People are not expecting optional removal because it will "ease the burden". They are demanding because with different optionals candidates are being judged on different scales for the same exam process. It is almost impossible to maintain parity when differents subjects are marked. Therefore optional removal will make a level playing field. With new subjects the burden will remain same but at least it will equally shared by everyone.

    CSAT removal was demanded by hindi medium "non-convent" educated junta in your words. They got it. Now they need to qualify with just 66 marks out of 200 marks in a paper which tests you on 10th level mathematics and english. You have got a problem with that too. If one doesn't know the basic mathematics and language then how do you expect them to understand the policy analysis when they become administrators. Removal of CSAT is biggest blow to the "convent and engineering educated" and now they need to fight on equal terms with non english medium students on the basis of paper 1, you have got a problem with that too?

    If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
    What is wrong with this recommendation. Today someone educated in medicine gets suddenly dropped to revenue service while someone educated in comouter science suddenly finds himself in police service for which he might or might not have any aptitude. It would be a great step if domain specific exams are introduced for different services, atleast the people who are selected will be aware of the basics of their service rather than randomly paratrooping in them and then wondering if they were cut out for it or not.

    Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. I don't know from where are you getting your insights. Why would BA people expect that optional removal will decrease doctors and engineers after optional removal. Arts graduate are prime beneficiaries of optionals, why would they hope for its removal.

    Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.
    Perhaps you are the only person who is thinking that change is patters is going to benefit anyone. Aspirants just hope for a more objective exam and removal of optional will help in that. So it is my request to keyboard warriors like you to first understand the context before giving the call for revolution.

    If you are a "struggling student" (going by your id) then reason for it is that you don't know what you are struggling against. Get the right perspective and you may win over your struggles.
    Brilliantl put, Thank you @Mitochondria . You are the powerhouse of the cell we are all in :-)
    *No good deed goes unpunished*
  • edited December 2017


    If you are a "struggling student" (going by your id) then reason for it is that you don't know what you are struggling against. Get the right perspective and you may win over your struggles.

    why are you so mad? :smiley:
    first of all, knowledge of english language does not mean that you have better understanding in anything. still i have seen people with a very bad english having a good grip on their subjects.
    secondly, these Law, Pub Ad. subjects should be taught in training rather than putting this burden on the aspirants.
    thirdly, how the people who already have been studying humanities form class 11th and in their graduation and the people with engineering background will have equal playing field? Now you will argue that they (engg. students) should have chosen humanities in their 11th standard. but do we really do that, our parents choose that for us.
    So study, dont get mad. :wink:
  • I Or the purpose of selecting these people might be to recommend the inclusion of only those useful parts of PubAd and other papers. :neutral:

    but when has the UPSC clearly defined the syllabus? they will write two word 'Pub Ad.' in the official notification and these coaching institutes will go hell mary teaching everything till phd. :smile:
  • Mitochondria Sir hit the nail on the head addressing each of the hollow arguments put forth by you however your reply cries immaturity and lack of basic understanding of requirements for this (or for that matter any) Exam.

    Statements like -knowledge of english language does not mean that you have better understanding in anything : The whole concept of knowledge of Language is to enhance comprehension (tested in CSAT) i.e understanding. How is one to draft and analyse Policy inputs if one lacks basic skills of 10th Level Reading and Comprehension and Basic statistics.

    Secondly, these Law, Pub Ad. subjects should be taught in training rather than putting this burden on the aspirants- I think you have not even cared to read Mitochondria's Comment - he makes a very compelling point regarding having an elementary knowledge of the Domain one is choosing as his career. It's not just about selection but about the fitment and motivation for that Service throughout the long Career.

    I have basically reiterated what Mitochondria Sir said and again all of this may fall on deaf ears and you may continue to think and preach as you see fit but the intent here is to clarify the rationale behind the recommendations and the need for a more OBJECTIVE, Level Playing field Examination selecting Optimal (or Satisfactory Fit) Candidates for respective services.

    PS: Engg Grad with a Non Humanities Optional
  • I support optional removal..parity chahiye bhaiyon.. sala jab man karta upsc walon ka kisi bhi optional ka patta saf kar dete hain..common optional lao..

    Btw this is not an insider info but mere flatmate k dost k father(Secretary level post in govt) ne bola h ki expect some major changes related to optional either this year or next year no idea what change going to be(even not sure whether this info is true or not)
  • I support optional removal..parity chahiye bhaiyon.. sala jab man karta upsc walon ka kisi bhi optional ka patta saf kar dete hain..common optional lao..

    Btw this is not an insider info but mere flatmate k dost k father(Secretary level post in govt) ne bola h ki expect some major changes related to optional either this year or next year no idea what change going to be(even not sure whether this info is true or not)

    :confused: This is too confusing. They can even do like they have done in 2013, removing without any prior notice. Everyone is discussing about removal of optional, may be we should contact other members of the committee. :neutral:
  • bhai optional hi to scoring hota hai
    baki ka to kuch pata nahi sabko near about number milte hai
    kyo hatana optional ko
  • edited December 2017

    bhai optional hi to scoring hota hai
    baki ka to kuch pata nahi sabko near about number milte hai
    kyo hatana optional ko

    Last year one Civil engineering guy got 213/250 marks in P1 of optional (he got a good rank ONLYYY because of his optional) ! It was more then P1+P2 marks of many geography legends (personally known) last yr !!..

    I'm still wondering that wasn't it a non-sensible, non-sensitive, hilarious, and painfully cruel joke of upsc with aspirants?? :mrgreen:


    Being IAS... 4 U Onlyyy... :-)
  • "The Curious Case of Baswan Committee Report"

    #Baswan Committee #Optional Removal #Level playing field #Age limit

    Many of the new kids and coaching institutes in Delhi are under the impression that UPSC can be intimidated by their protests and court cases; however, in the past all these protests has only led to the toughening of the process and pattern of the examination. For example for the people who demanded the removal of CSAT aptitude and English Paper found out that UPSC took a complete biased decision towards the convent school kids to make these papers qualifying and hitting a great blow to the underprivileged people who could not afford the private schools and engineering colleges to be that much proficient in both English and Maths to qualify.

    Now those of you who have a good internet connection at home and have been taking part in the survey by Baswan commitee, and supported the removal of optional paper, however due to any reason there may be, thinking it may ease the burden of syllabus or probably were misled to do so by your institutes who claim to have deep understanding of the UPSC selection process and have "insider information" :smiley: are in for a great surprise in the coming years.

    If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
    It can clearly be seen from the ongoing Forest Services Exam pattern that aspirants who in the first place wanted less syllabus burden will be shocked the most and will end up giving not 1, nor 2 but many many optional exams as the seats are limited per service, and the student will have to give one related subject exam each for their selected preferences. Secondly, for the coaching classes who wanted to remove the faculty for different optional subjects to ease up their pockets will have to hire more permanent faculties. Three cheers for them :wink:

    Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. Since these kids have seen more competition and are cream of you lot, will find it more easier to cram the easy stuff left after the removal (replacement) of the optionals. Don't get me wrong, but this is the bitter truth and you guys must swallow it.

    Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.

    Study now, give your everything to this exam. Because if you don't, you will find finally when you give up that you had given it everything you had eventually.

    People are not expecting optional removal because it will "ease the burden". They are demanding because with different optionals candidates are being judged on different scales for the same exam process. It is almost impossible to maintain parity when differents subjects are marked. Therefore optional removal will make a level playing field. With new subjects the burden will remain same but at least it will equally shared by everyone.

    CSAT removal was demanded by hindi medium "non-convent" educated junta in your words. They got it. Now they need to qualify with just 66 marks out of 200 marks in a paper which tests you on 10th level mathematics and english. You have got a problem with that too. If one doesn't know the basic mathematics and language then how do you expect them to understand the policy analysis when they become administrators. Removal of CSAT is biggest blow to the "convent and engineering educated" and now they need to fight on equal terms with non english medium students on the basis of paper 1, you have got a problem with that too?

    If you are not forgetting that one of the recommendation of the Baswan Committee is to replace aspirant's choice of optional paper with a common paper paper of Pub Ad. for Administrative Services, Law paper for IPS, Economics for IRS, Accounts for CAG so on...
    What is wrong with this recommendation. Today someone educated in medicine gets suddenly dropped to revenue service while someone educated in comouter science suddenly finds himself in police service for which he might or might not have any aptitude. It would be a great step if domain specific exams are introduced for different services, atleast the people who are selected will be aware of the basics of their service rather than randomly paratrooping in them and then wondering if they were cut out for it or not.

    Now for those of you who have done B.A. or Honors degree and are critical of the aspirants from the medical and engineering background, think that the ratio of these aspirants will decrease in the final selection, are the next people for surprise from the UPSC. I don't know from where are you getting your insights. Why would BA people expect that optional removal will decrease doctors and engineers after optional removal. Arts graduate are prime beneficiaries of optionals, why would they hope for its removal.

    Now at last, if anyone of you still think that UPSC is your friend and any change in the pattern of paper will help you in any way, boy you have lost already. The number of aspirants are increasing day by day, and so is the UPSC's choosiness. Seats are limited and decreasing, cutoffs are getting higher and higher no matter how hard the paper comes. I would recommend you, yes you who managed to read this has probably wasted your precious time, study hard. You deserve to be selected, and if the age limit of the selection process gets decreased, will find yourself overpowered by the young blood with less understanding and who were bought up cramming and throat cutting their competition, will find it harder and harder to see the light.
    Perhaps you are the only person who is thinking that change is patters is going to benefit anyone. Aspirants just hope for a more objective exam and removal of optional will help in that. So it is my request to keyboard warriors like you to first understand the context before giving the call for revolution.

    If you are a "struggling student" (going by your id) then reason for it is that you don't know what you are struggling against. Get the right perspective and you may win over your struggles.
    Can't agree more. :smile:
  • edited December 2017

    bhai optional hi to scoring hota hai
    baki ka to kuch pata nahi sabko near about number milte hai
    kyo hatana optional ko

    Last year one Civil engineering guy got 213/250 marks in P1 of optional (he got a good rank ONLYYY because of his optional) ! It was more then P1+P2 marks of many geography legends (personally known) last yr !!..

    I'm still wondering that wasn't it a non-sensible, non-sensitive, hilarious, and painfully cruel joke of upsc with aspirants?? :mrgreen:


    With due respect optional lene se phle sabhko pta hota hai ki kya pro n con hai, topper k marks se optional m die the marks ka generalize bhinthik nhi, 300 se uper k lie mehnat chiye koi bhi optional ho, usi civil engg mein total 159 bhi the, Mech mein 345 the to logo k 254 n 150 bhi the, pub ad mein 180 the to 300 plus bhi the,
    Pub ad ya Philo ka pro like Kam syllabus overlap with gs n essay etc so potentially pub ad ya baki humanities wala agar subject prepare kar rha to 250 250 250 250 k 4 paper ka indirect time bhi de rha,
    Dekhne Ko to 250 in Mech / math and 250 in pubad same lgte hain, but diff h bhot, kabhi bhi kisi b time Mech wale k gs mein Kam he hnge ya hote hain , jaise civil engg k topper k the,,,time nhi mil pata sir experience se bta rha , nhi hota 2 !month mein syllbs khtm akhir mein yahi Sunna pad skta h 'optional se he hua',,,,,, sabh level hojata, ya to sirf engg padho n Lelo 300 se uper , ya gs bhi pdhoge baki humanities Ko picche cchodne k lie to 250 he ayegnge ...
    Kisi kisi ka forte alag alag hai, kisi ka gs kisi ka optional, UPSC chance har stage par degi hai, uniform karoge tabh bhi parity ka to bolnge he log, fark itna hoga ustime topic kucch aur hoga , like moderation etc, essay must be check by two separate person, how one can guarantee that it will not be subjective?

    Morover optional hatne se subjectivity aur badh jayegi, koi guarantee nhi le skta ki last year ki mehnat gs mein agli Baar bhi Kam ayegi. Optional mein kam se kam add on to hota he hai,
    Maine baswan k survey mein optional htane par he tick Kia tha, coz tabh maine optional pdhana start nhi Kia tha, har Banda easiness chahta hai, optional htane se bttr option parity Ko dhang se tackle krna hai,
    Subjective paper se subjectivity kabhi nhi hategi
    Mere marks Kam the kafi humanities k logo se , engg optional hai, koi complaint nhi , mehnat ki h jisne marks mile h use as simple as that!
  • Everyone is free to choose whichever optional they like.
    Where one humanities optional can be done easily in 3 months head to toe, a science/math/engg optional requires nearly 6 months of toiling.
    If someone is getting good marks, they have worked hard for it. And if they get a good rank because of it, kudos to them.
    I really hope optional is not removed, but lets see what happens. Will have to adjust whatever the case.
    "It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you"
    - Rachel (Batman Begins)
  • Queen said:

    Everyone is free to choose whichever optional they like.
    Where one humanities optional can be done easily in 3 months head to toe, a science/math/engg optional requires nearly 6 months of toiling.
    If someone is getting good marks, they have worked hard for it. And if they get a good rank because of it, kudos to them.
    I really hope optional is not removed, but lets see what happens. Will have to adjust whatever the case.

    +1
  • Let's face whatever changes they make. Over the time i have realized this fruitless urge of many including me to have opinions for things over which we have zero control. If UPSC even come with standards that you have to mount the Everest, i am sure people shall already be buying the gears required for that. So let's see what's coming our way!!!!
    Prelims 4 ,Mains 4* Interview 0
    #Working #Political Science
    #Tu Shaheen hai Parwaaz kaam tera , Tere age abhi asmaan aur bhi hai"
  • edited December 2017
    ajit.kd said:

    bhai optional hi to scoring hota hai
    baki ka to kuch pata nahi sabko near about number milte hai
    kyo hatana optional ko

    Last year one Civil engineering guy got 213/250 marks in P1 of optional (he got a good rank ONLYYY because of his optional) ! It was more then P1+P2 marks of many geography legends (personally known) last yr !!..

    I'm still wondering that wasn't it a non-sensible, non-sensitive, hilarious, and painfully cruel joke of upsc with aspirants?? :mrgreen:


    With due respect optional lene se phle sabhko pta hota hai ki kya pro n con hai, topper k marks se optional m die the marks ka generalize bhinthik nhi, 300 se uper k lie mehnat chiye koi bhi optional ho, usi civil engg mein total 159 bhi the, Mech mein 345 the to logo k 254 n 150 bhi the, pub ad mein 180 the to 300 plus bhi the,
    Pub ad ya Philo ka pro like Kam syllabus overlap with gs n essay etc so potentially pub ad ya baki humanities wala agar subject prepare kar rha to 250 250 250 250 k 4 paper ka indirect time bhi de rha,
    Dekhne Ko to 250 in Mech / math and 250 in pubad same lgte hain, but diff h bhot, kabhi bhi kisi b time Mech wale k gs mein Kam he hnge ya hote hain , jaise civil engg k topper k the,,,time nhi mil pata sir experience se bta rha , nhi hota 2 !month mein syllbs khtm akhir mein yahi Sunna pad skta h 'optional se he hua',,,,,, sabh level hojata, ya to sirf engg padho n Lelo 300 se uper , ya gs bhi pdhoge baki humanities Ko picche cchodne k lie to 250 he ayegnge ...
    Kisi kisi ka forte alag alag hai, kisi ka gs kisi ka optional, UPSC chance har stage par degi hai, uniform karoge tabh bhi parity ka to bolnge he log, fark itna hoga ustime topic kucch aur hoga , like moderation etc, essay must be check by two separate person, how one can guarantee that it will not be subjective?

    Morover optional hatne se subjectivity aur badh jayegi, koi guarantee nhi le skta ki last year ki mehnat gs mein agli Baar bhi Kam ayegi. Optional mein kam se kam add on to hota he hai,
    Maine baswan k survey mein optional htane par he tick Kia tha, coz tabh maine optional pdhana start nhi Kia tha, har Banda easiness chahta hai, optional htane se bttr option parity Ko dhang se tackle krna hai,
    Subjective paper se subjectivity kabhi nhi hategi
    Mere marks Kam the kafi humanities k logo se , engg optional hai, koi complaint nhi , mehnat ki h jisne marks mile h use as simple as that!
    Exactly. Last year Civil Engg was on the tougher side. Hardly anyone scored more than 300 other than Avdhesh. Yet there was the perception among aspirants with other optional that civil was very easy and was favored by UPSC, merely because one guy got 356.

    He deserved every bit of it. He was AIR 544 (General) & 2 (category) in IIT JEE 2011 [Thanks for correcting], yet chose Civil Engg, primarily for ESE and Civil Services. He was the topper of his batch at IITD. He secured AIR 9 in ESE the same year.
    Indian Forest Service 2017 Batch
  • edited December 2017
    Queen said:

    Everyone is free to choose whichever optional they like.
    Where one humanities optional can be done easily in 3 months head to toe, a science/math/engg optional requires nearly 6 months of toiling.
    If someone is getting good marks, they have worked hard for it. And if they get a good rank because of it, kudos to them.
    I really hope optional is not removed, but lets see what happens. Will have to adjust whatever the case.

    Good marks need hard work but equal hard work across optionals is not yielding equal marks to any extent.
    PS- i have yet to see any selected candidate having pol Science who has got less than 280 marks, on the other hand only 2-3 people in law amongst selected candidates scored above 280. So as per your argument no one worked hard in law whereas all pol science candidates worked hard which doesn't make sense at least to me.
    PPS- I am not arguing against your stand, just wanted to make a point.
  • Let's face whatever changes they make. Over the time i have realized this fruitless urge of many including me to have opinions for things over which we have zero control. If UPSC even come with standards that you have to mount the Everest, i am sure people shall already be buying the gears required for that. So let's see what's coming our way!!!!

    Optional removal is need of the hour. In fact restructuring of GS papers should be on cards too. But as the bold part above, its just wishful thinking.
  • I hope upsc would understand the kind of effort we put on optionals...sudden removal would be life changing for many people...as it takes atleast 1 to 1.5 yrs to master any optional.....sometimes 2 yrs also....only those people are barking who haven't strted with optional or those who got less marks and barking that they have done lot of hardwork....any case the hardworkers will always win ...and any one who got good marks in optional is just because the smart strategy and hardwork ...
  • INFI said:

    ajit.kd said:

    bhai optional hi to scoring hota hai
    baki ka to kuch pata nahi sabko near about number milte hai
    kyo hatana optional ko

    Last year one Civil engineering guy got 213/250 marks in P1 of optional (he got a good rank ONLYYY because of his optional) ! It was more then P1+P2 marks of many geography legends (personally known) last yr !!..

    I'm still wondering that wasn't it a non-sensible, non-sensitive, hilarious, and painfully cruel joke of upsc with aspirants?? :mrgreen:


    With due respect optional lene se phle sabhko pta hota hai ki kya pro n con hai, topper k marks se optional m die the marks ka generalize bhinthik nhi, 300 se uper k lie mehnat chiye koi bhi optional ho, usi civil engg mein total 159 bhi the, Mech mein 345 the to logo k 254 n 150 bhi the, pub ad mein 180 the to 300 plus bhi the,
    Pub ad ya Philo ka pro like Kam syllabus overlap with gs n essay etc so potentially pub ad ya baki humanities wala agar subject prepare kar rha to 250 250 250 250 k 4 paper ka indirect time bhi de rha,
    Dekhne Ko to 250 in Mech / math and 250 in pubad same lgte hain, but diff h bhot, kabhi bhi kisi b time Mech wale k gs mein Kam he hnge ya hote hain , jaise civil engg k topper k the,,,time nhi mil pata sir experience se bta rha , nhi hota 2 !month mein syllbs khtm akhir mein yahi Sunna pad skta h 'optional se he hua',,,,,, sabh level hojata, ya to sirf engg padho n Lelo 300 se uper , ya gs bhi pdhoge baki humanities Ko picche cchodne k lie to 250 he ayegnge ...
    Kisi kisi ka forte alag alag hai, kisi ka gs kisi ka optional, UPSC chance har stage par degi hai, uniform karoge tabh bhi parity ka to bolnge he log, fark itna hoga ustime topic kucch aur hoga , like moderation etc, essay must be check by two separate person, how one can guarantee that it will not be subjective?

    Morover optional hatne se subjectivity aur badh jayegi, koi guarantee nhi le skta ki last year ki mehnat gs mein agli Baar bhi Kam ayegi. Optional mein kam se kam add on to hota he hai,
    Maine baswan k survey mein optional htane par he tick Kia tha, coz tabh maine optional pdhana start nhi Kia tha, har Banda easiness chahta hai, optional htane se bttr option parity Ko dhang se tackle krna hai,
    Subjective paper se subjectivity kabhi nhi hategi
    Mere marks Kam the kafi humanities k logo se , engg optional hai, koi complaint nhi , mehnat ki h jisne marks mile h use as simple as that!
    Exactly. Last year Civil Engg was on the tougher side. Hardly anyone scored more than 300 other than Avdhesh. Yet there was the perception among aspirants with other optional that civil was very easy and was favored by UPSC, merely because one guy got 356.

    He deserved every bit of it. He was AIR 100 (General) in IIT JEE 2011, yet chose Civil Engg, primarily for ESE and Civil Services. He was the topper of his batch at IITD. He secured AIR 9 in ESE the same year.


    He deserved actually to be awarded with such high marks ...respect
  • Nananana said:

    Queen said:

    Everyone is free to choose whichever optional they like.
    Where one humanities optional can be done easily in 3 months head to toe, a science/math/engg optional requires nearly 6 months of toiling.
    If someone is getting good marks, they have worked hard for it. And if they get a good rank because of it, kudos to them.
    I really hope optional is not removed, but lets see what happens. Will have to adjust whatever the case.

    Good marks need hard work but equal hard work across optionals is not yielding equal marks to any extent.
    PS- i have yet to see any selected candidate having pol Science who has got less than 280 marks, on the other hand only 2-3 people in law amongst selected candidates scored above 280. So as per your argument no one worked hard in law whereas all pol science candidates worked hard which doesn't make sense at least to me.
    PPS- I am not arguing against your stand, just wanted to make a point.
    See, firstly, some optionals that are popular have many coaching institutes teaching it, many teachers and therefore, there is a much better understanding of the topics and syllabus, more notes, books etc. This is true for pol science and few others. Pol Science is taught by this well known teacher whose students have performed well time n again.
    Law is taught in few institutes compared to it. What this results in is that, firstly, less analysis of the syllabus/papers/marks and most students come from law background who might not have written according to the demand of the upsc.
    This is true for some other optionals too.
    In science optionals, marks are comparatively easier to get as if you have written the right answer, there is no reason to deduct marks. But that itself requires a lot of hard work. Trust me, it is very difficult to remember the all the derivations of 3 years of a science honors syllabus or 4 years of engg subject and reproduce them in 2 hours. And then solve all numericals correctly too. If there is any injustice at all, it is against these science students who do not get marks despite writing the correct answers. They are the worst sufferers of scaling as you really cant do much else except solve the question correctly. So, if someone gets good marks there, they have definitely done very well to impress the checker so much.
    In humanities, there is always scope for improvement as we can see in GS answers ourselves. See the various dimensions and examples that students have used for different answers. It is there in the mains GS related threads on forum. Hence, there is a lot of comparison and subjectivity.
    Another issue is the bad condition of some optionals like pub ad and geography since past 2 3 years. I feel that it is because when an optional starts getting too many students and consistent good marks, upsc maybe changes the checkers as well as the paper setters. Which results in new unpredictability in awarding of marks and more strictness. This moderates over the next few years. This is justified else all students will choose just a few selected optionals and there will be a very uneven distribution.
    In only one case I feel there are unexplained high marks- the regional language papers. Here all students consistently score very well, amongst the highest of all optionals, which I find very weird. I may be wrong here, but as far as I have seen, it is true.

    Your examples would be justified if all students whether selected or unselected scored well (or badly) according to choice of optional.
    "It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you"
    - Rachel (Batman Begins)
  • Queen said:

    Everyone is free to choose whichever optional they like.
    Where one humanities optional can be done easily in 3 months head to toe, a science/math/engg optional requires nearly 6 months of toiling.
    If someone is getting good marks, they have worked hard for it. And if they get a good rank because of it, kudos to them.
    I really hope optional is not removed, but lets see what happens. Will have to adjust whatever the case.

    uhhhmmmmmm. NOPES....there is no free choice either.
    See the list of optional in UPSC notification. Do you think every every subject is mentioned there?
    I did not find the optional in which I did my graduation. Isn't that a disadvantage for people who have to study a new subject all over again?
    Where's the parity now? :D
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • edited December 2017
    Queen said:



    See, firstly, some optionals that are popular have many coaching institutes teaching it, many teachers and therefore, there is a much better understanding of the topics and syllabus, more notes, books etc. This is true for pol science and few others. Pol Science is taught by this well known teacher whose students have performed well time n again.
    Law is taught in few institutes compared to it. What this results in is that, firstly, less analysis of the syllabus/papers/marks and most students come from law background who might not have written according to the demand of the upsc.
    This is true for some other optionals too.
    In science optionals, marks are comparatively easier to get as if you have written the right answer, there is no reason to deduct marks. But that itself requires a lot of hard work. Trust me, it is very difficult to remember the all the derivations of 3 years of a science honors syllabus or 4 years of engg subject and reproduce them in 2 hours. And then solve all numericals correctly too. If there is any injustice at all, it is against these science students who do not get marks despite writing the correct answers. They are the worst sufferers of scaling as you really cant do much else except solve the question correctly. So, if someone gets good marks there, they have definitely done very well to impress the checker so much.
    In humanities, there is always scope for improvement as we can see in GS answers ourselves. See the various dimensions and examples that students have used for different answers. It is there in the mains GS related threads on forum. Hence, there is a lot of comparison and subjectivity.
    Another issue is the bad condition of some optionals like pub ad and geography since past 2 3 years. I feel that it is because when an optional starts getting too many students and consistent good marks, upsc maybe changes the checkers as well as the paper setters. Which results in new unpredictability in awarding of marks and more strictness. This moderates over the next few years. This is justified else all students will choose just a few selected optionals and there will be a very uneven distribution.
    In only one case I feel there are unexplained high marks- the regional language papers. Here all students consistently score very well, amongst the highest of all optionals, which I find very weird. I may be wrong here, but as far as I have seen, it is true.

    Your examples would be justified if all students whether selected or unselected scored well (or badly) according to choice of optional.

    I think you have very less data based on which you have shaped your opinion like engg. subjects don't get good marks (this time many engg subject fared better than many humanities subject). Also toughness of a subject can't be claimed for leniency in checking. People are well aware of syllabus and have free will to choose easy one but marking pattern by upsc is not under the free will of aspirants and is unpredictable which is the real pain.
    Secondly if your assertion is true then why the do we see "sudden upliftment" of a subject (more than 8 of pol Science in top25 ranks, usually it's 2-3) and sudden butchering of a subject ( this time only 8-9 candidates of law in 1000, usually it's 30-32) when number of coachings, amount of notes available, or any other factor remains same. The only argument for this according to you might be that this time more intelligent people took pol Science and less intelligent people took law or this time pol Science people wrote extra relevant answer and law people wrote rubbish which obviously i don't agree to.
  • Queen said:

    Everyone is free to choose whichever optional they like.
    Where one humanities optional can be done easily in 3 months head to toe, a science/math/engg optional requires nearly 6 months of toiling.
    If someone is getting good marks, they have worked hard for it. And if they get a good rank because of it, kudos to them.
    I really hope optional is not removed, but lets see what happens. Will have to adjust whatever the case.

    uhhhmmmmmm. NOPES....there is no free choice either.
    See the list of optional in UPSC notification. Do you think every every subject is mentioned there?
    I did not find the optional in which I did my graduation. Isn't that a disadvantage for people who have to study a new subject all over again?
    Where's the parity now? :D
    Optional which can stand chance to get even competition by adding or subtracting some part of syllabus are thr in UpsC , ab kal koi forensic , DNA editing ya space tech , ya koi specialised like fashion technology etc m kare to jaruri nhi wo UPSC mein optional ho , it was your choice to do grad in that subject, kal koi bole ki Maine graduation nhi ki mujhe kyu nhi dene Dia ja rha exam, parity honi chiye article 14 mein sab k sab log equal h :p
  • edited December 2017
    Nananana said:

    Queen said:



    See, firstly, some optionals that are popular have many coaching institutes teaching it, many teachers and therefore, there is a much better understanding of the topics and syllabus, more notes, books etc. This is true for pol science and few others. Pol Science is taught by this well known teacher whose students have performed well time n again.
    Law is taught in few institutes compared to it. What this results in is that, firstly, less analysis of the syllabus/papers/marks and most students come from law background who might not have written according to the demand of the upsc.
    This is true for some other optionals too.
    In science optionals, marks are comparatively easier to get as if you have written the right answer, there is no reason to deduct marks. But that itself requires a lot of hard work. Trust me, it is very difficult to remember the all the derivations of 3 years of a science honors syllabus or 4 years of engg subject and reproduce them in 2 hours. And then solve all numericals correctly too. If there is any injustice at all, it is against these science students who do not get marks despite writing the correct answers. They are the worst sufferers of scaling as you really cant do much else except solve the question correctly. So, if someone gets good marks there, they have definitely done very well to impress the checker so much.
    In humanities, there is always scope for improvement as we can see in GS answers ourselves. See the various dimensions and examples that students have used for different answers. It is there in the mains GS related threads on forum. Hence, there is a lot of comparison and subjectivity.
    Another issue is the bad condition of some optionals like pub ad and geography since past 2 3 years. I feel that it is because when an optional starts getting too many students and consistent good marks, upsc maybe changes the checkers as well as the paper setters. Which results in new unpredictability in awarding of marks and more strictness. This moderates over the next few years. This is justified else all students will choose just a few selected optionals and there will be a very uneven distribution.
    In only one case I feel there are unexplained high marks- the regional language papers. Here all students consistently score very well, amongst the highest of all optionals, which I find very weird. I may be wrong here, but as far as I have seen, it is true.

    Your examples would be justified if all students whether selected or unselected scored well (or badly) according to choice of optional.

    I think you have very less data based on which you have shaped your opinion like engg. subjects don't get good marks (this time many engg subject fared better than many humanities subject). Also toughness of a subject can't be claimed for leniency in checking. People are well aware of syllabus and have free will to choose easy one but marking pattern by upsc is not under the free will of aspirants and is unpredictable which is the real pain.
    Secondly if your assertion is true then why the do we see "sudden upliftment" of a subject (more than 8 of pol Science in top25 ranks, usually it's 2-3) and sudden butchering of a subject ( this time only 8-9 candidates of law in 1000, usually it's 30-32) when number of coachings, amount of notes available, or any other factor remains same. The only argument for this according to you might be that this time more intelligent people took pol Science and less intelligent people took law or this time pol Science people wrote extra relevant answer and law people wrote rubbish which obviously i don't agree to.
    I never said engg students have got less marks. It is only a comparison. A correct numerical should ideally get full marks but that does not happen. Again, I never asked for leniency. I just stated what happens in response to the comments before mine.
    I am fine with whatever situation is there.
    Rest, I cant explain what are coincidences according to me- how many score what rank etc.
    And the last sentence is really funny.
    "It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you"
    - Rachel (Batman Begins)
  • edited December 2017
    Nananana said:

    Queen said:



    See, firstly, some optionals that are popular have many coaching institutes teaching it, many teachers and therefore, there is a much better understanding of the topics and syllabus, more notes, books etc. This is true for pol science and few others. Pol Science is taught by this well known teacher whose students have performed well time n again.
    Law is taught in few institutes compared to it. What this results in is that, firstly, less analysis of the syllabus/papers/marks and most students come from law background who might not have written according to the demand of the upsc.
    This is true for some other optionals too.
    In science optionals, marks are comparatively easier to get as if you have written the right answer, there is no reason to deduct marks. But that itself requires a lot of hard work. Trust me, it is very difficult to remember the all the derivations of 3 years of a science honors syllabus or 4 years of engg subject and reproduce them in 2 hours. And then solve all numericals correctly too. If there is any injustice at all, it is against these science students who do not get marks despite writing the correct answers. They are the worst sufferers of scaling as you really cant do much else except solve the question correctly. So, if someone gets good marks there, they have definitely done very well to impress the checker so much.
    In humanities, there is always scope for improvement as we can see in GS answers ourselves. See the various dimensions and examples that students have used for different answers. It is there in the mains GS related threads on forum. Hence, there is a lot of comparison and subjectivity.
    Another issue is the bad condition of some optionals like pub ad and geography since past 2 3 years. I feel that it is because when an optional starts getting too many students and consistent good marks, upsc maybe changes the checkers as well as the paper setters. Which results in new unpredictability in awarding of marks and more strictness. This moderates over the next few years. This is justified else all students will choose just a few selected optionals and there will be a very uneven distribution.
    In only one case I feel there are unexplained high marks- the regional language papers. Here all students consistently score very well, amongst the highest of all optionals, which I find very weird. I may be wrong here, but as far as I have seen, it is true.

    Your examples would be justified if all students whether selected or unselected scored well (or badly) according to choice of optional.

    I think you have very less data based on which you have shaped your opinion like engg. subjects don't get good marks (this time many engg subject fared better than many humanities subject). Also toughness of a subject can't be claimed for leniency in checking. People are well aware of syllabus and have free will to choose easy one but marking pattern by upsc is not under the free will of aspirants and is unpredictable which is the real pain.
    Secondly if your assertion is true then why the do we see "sudden upliftment" of a subject (more than 8 of pol Science in top25 ranks, usually it's 2-3) and sudden butchering of a subject ( this time only 8-9 candidates of law in 1000, usually it's 30-32) when number of coachings, amount of notes available, or any other factor remains same. The only argument for this according to you might be that this time more intelligent people took pol Science and less intelligent people took law or this time pol Science people wrote extra relevant answer and law people wrote rubbish which obviously i don't agree to.
    Correct your fact , Abhi tak UPSC ne 2014 ki he detail di hai bas idea hojyega,
    PS' butchring' kie bolte hai, chalo manlo geography ka paper asan agya , and sabhko marks dedie to butchering nhi hui 3000 logo mein se 1500 k 300 se uper de dei , final selection he na hojyega 800 geography se Kam se Kam, simple maths hai, jis subjcts se jyada log denge used jyada rejected bhi dikhnge, butchring' bolne wale bhi bhot honge us subject se ,,,,,, agar highest dekh rahe ho pol SCI mein to lowest bhi dekho, average selected candidates k mat dekho, jinhone optional se Dia unse AVG nikalo, Mech k total 5 logo k 310 se uper hai, ek k 345 , 1 log he top 100 mein hai wo bhi 92 rank, 2015 mein 250 smthing was rank opener ,among lowest selection rate, 300 se uper padhne wall k he aye hain free mein nhi degi UPSC
    Law optional har saal among best hota h selection rate mein not jus because optional coz overlap with gs , ese he Mech topper ka rank 250 smthing tha, optional m accha score krne wale bhi bahar hote jaye hain ,
    Marks Kam bhi sabhi optional mein aate Hain n jyada bhi, but geo ya kisi optional Ko khush krne k lie UPSC us optional se 90% nahi select kar skti , usi process Ko scaling ya butchering bolte h
    Civil engg k topper k 356 the , selection rate 7 % rhta h lagbgh, 300 logo ne bhi Dia usme se 10 20 honge select finally, baki k marks bhi aaye 300 ya280 bhi, unhone sabhko bola hoga butchering hui hai , but bolne wale Kam the
    Geo ka paper last year easy bol the the log, 3000 ne Dia, selection 200 ka hota hai final list mein, butchering bolne wale 2500 log hnge , n us optional Ko low slection , bakwas , inequality by UPSC wgera se dekha jayega , jbki usme bhi topper k 335 the !
    Jo ye 335 ya 356 ya345 lene wale log hain ye decide nhi krskte UPSC ki parity, thik h ya nhi, talent hai Inka kadr karni chiye bjaye acquisition k
    http://discuss.forumias.com/uploads/editor/hh/4epz2pgbagce.png
  • Queen said:

    Nananana said:

    Queen said:



    See, firstly, some optionals that are popular have many coaching institutes teaching it, many teachers and therefore, there is a much better understanding of the topics and syllabus, more notes, books etc. This is true for pol science and few others. Pol Science is taught by this well known teacher whose students have performed well time n again.
    Law is taught in few institutes compared to it. What this results in is that, firstly, less analysis of the syllabus/papers/marks and most students come from law background who might not have written according to the demand of the upsc.
    This is true for some other optionals too.
    In science optionals, marks are comparatively easier to get as if you have written the right answer, there is no reason to deduct marks. But that itself requires a lot of hard work. Trust me, it is very difficult to remember the all the derivations of 3 years of a science honors syllabus or 4 years of engg subject and reproduce them in 2 hours. And then solve all numericals correctly too. If there is any injustice at all, it is against these science students who do not get marks despite writing the correct answers. They are the worst sufferers of scaling as you really cant do much else except solve the question correctly. So, if someone gets good marks there, they have definitely done very well to impress the checker so much.
    In humanities, there is always scope for improvement as we can see in GS answers ourselves. See the various dimensions and examples that students have used for different answers. It is there in the mains GS related threads on forum. Hence, there is a lot of comparison and subjectivity.
    Another issue is the bad condition of some optionals like pub ad and geography since past 2 3 years. I feel that it is because when an optional starts getting too many students and consistent good marks, upsc maybe changes the checkers as well as the paper setters. Which results in new unpredictability in awarding of marks and more strictness. This moderates over the next few years. This is justified else all students will choose just a few selected optionals and there will be a very uneven distribution.
    In only one case I feel there are unexplained high marks- the regional language papers. Here all students consistently score very well, amongst the highest of all optionals, which I find very weird. I may be wrong here, but as far as I have seen, it is true.

    Your examples would be justified if all students whether selected or unselected scored well (or badly) according to choice of optional.

    I think you have very less data based on which you have shaped your opinion like engg. subjects don't get good marks (this time many engg subject fared better than many humanities subject). Also toughness of a subject can't be claimed for leniency in checking. People are well aware of syllabus and have free will to choose easy one but marking pattern by upsc is not under the free will of aspirants and is unpredictable which is the real pain.
    Secondly if your assertion is true then why the do we see "sudden upliftment" of a subject (more than 8 of pol Science in top25 ranks, usually it's 2-3) and sudden butchering of a subject ( this time only 8-9 candidates of law in 1000, usually it's 30-32) when number of coachings, amount of notes available, or any other factor remains same. The only argument for this according to you might be that this time more intelligent people took pol Science and less intelligent people took law or this time pol Science people wrote extra relevant answer and law people wrote rubbish which obviously i don't agree to.
    I never said engg students have got less marks. It is only a comparison. A correct numerical should ideally get full marks but that does not happen. Again, I never asked for leniency. I just stated what happens in response to the comments before mine.
    I am fine with whatever situation is there.
    Rest, I cant explain what are coincidences according to me- how many score what rank etc.
    And the last sentence is really funny.
    Well in that case, ideally, an incorrect final answer should fetch zero marks which does not happen either so it balances out.
    And these " coincidences" are the real cause of pain. This time the tilt of coincidences was towards subject like pol Science, next time it may be towards any other subject over which the aspirants have no control and they act as externality which may even overwhelm the hard work factor.
    PS- earlier i also used to think optional is a good thing and a specialised subject helps to show your potential but this opinion got shattered when my subject got butchered this time though i cleared this exam but couldn't get IAS solely due to optional. So now i say F*** optional, delete it ASAP :lol:
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ForumIAS is trusted by over 10,000+ students for their Prelims, Mains and Interview Preparation and we currently run several assistance programs to help students from Civil Services prelims preparation to rank upgradation to IAS. You can enroll for these programs by visiting http://blog.forumias.com/courses

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