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OBC NCL criteria for wards of PSU Employees

I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
Anyone else in the same situation as me?
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Comments

  • I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    Wait for this year allocation of job, this is a big issue now, first see what happens this year but if you have cleared pt as general category score then not to worry much. Try to clear mains also as general category candidate
  • naughty said:

    I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    Wait for this year allocation of job, this is a big issue now, first see what happens this year but if you have cleared pt as general category score then not to worry much. Try to clear mains also as general category candidate
    But how would I know if I have cleared mains as a general category candidate? UPSC won't declare the cut off marks and a candidate's marks in prelims until the exam cycle ends. Also, the UPSC doesn't allow switching categories within the exam cycle. So If I filled the form for prelims in the OBC category then I will have to fill the form for mains in the same category. Correct me if I am wrong.
  • naughty said:

    I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    Wait for this year allocation of job, this is a big issue now, first see what happens this year but if you have cleared pt as general category score then not to worry much. Try to clear mains also as general category candidate
    But how would I know if I have cleared mains as a general category candidate? UPSC won't declare the cut off marks and a candidate's marks in prelims until the exam cycle ends. Also, the UPSC doesn't allow switching categories within the exam cycle. So If I filled the form for prelims in the OBC category then I will have to fill the form for mains in the same category. Correct me if I am wrong.
    If I have cleared Prelims*
  • Bro as far as I know that case regarding OBC ncl issue in CSE is pending in the Delhi High Court. Also there was thread regarding this on the forum do search for it. By the definition of government gazette PSU employees are not government employees and are treated just like others while granting ncl status.
  • last year wale case me SC ne sabhi ko dopt ko joing letter issue karne ka order diya tha

    to es saal issue nahi hoga, agar huwa to order ka reference de dena ( order ke liye purani thread dekhiye)
  • MSD2016 said:

    last year wale case me SC ne sabhi ko dopt ko joing letter issue karne ka order diya tha

    to es saal issue nahi hoga, agar huwa to order ka reference de dena ( order ke liye purani thread dekhiye)

    My bhai are you sure ki obc candidates were issued joining letter, I think 20 candidates were debarred and court said ki all there request should be clubbed in the case
  • nahi bhai, sc ne joining ke liye bola tha, 10-12 writ thi sath me, gopal subramanium, sanjay hedge type bhodi lawyer kiye the

    kisi dost ne order bhi post kiya tha
  • Ye kaese ho skta hai..seats to allocate ho gyi thi and ias to 180 seats hi thi.

    I know 2 people who could not get ias due to this.

    Now what will happen to those who joined ias in place of them?
  • I called the UPSC folks today. They said that I can draft a mail to the under secretary of CSP and ask him to reevaluate my answer sheet for prelims under the general category.
    If I qualify then I will be treated as a general candidate.

    Can somebody post a link to the SC judgment? from what I have heard that case is still on going and no judgment has been delivered so far.
  • do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15
  • edited July 31
    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
  • I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    There is no classification or equivalence has been established in psus vis a vis central govt employees. It is not possible also. The respective psus need to establish equivalence or otherwise income criteria will determine ncobc status.
  • try_hard said:

    I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    There is no classification or equivalence has been established in psus vis a vis central govt employees. It is not possible also. The respective psus need to establish equivalence or otherwise income criteria will determine ncobc status.
    Check this decision.
    pdf
    pdf
    cat.pdf
    129K
    cat.pdf 129.3K
  • try_hard said:

    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
    Madam/Sir, i havenot crossed 6 lakhs for three consecutive years,so on the basis of this criterion i thought i could avail obc ncl.Writing exam in 2018.Confused about availing obc status now.
  • I just called the DoPT. Their contact number is 011 23092110.
    As was expected from a sarkari daftar the response to my question that who will establish the equivalence was "main yaha pe academic discussion k liye nhi baitha hu. kon karega kon nhi karega iski discussion k liye main authorised nhi hu" :smile:
  • taknev202 said:

    try_hard said:

    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
    Madam/Sir, i havenot crossed 6 lakhs for three consecutive years,so on the basis of this criterion i thought i could avail obc ncl.Writing exam in 2018.Confused about availing obc status now.
    Bro as far as I know if your income is within prescribed limit then you can get the OBC ncl certificate with no issues no matter what class your parents are employed (except government employees).
  • Dead Man said:

    taknev202 said:

    try_hard said:

    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
    Madam/Sir, i havenot crossed 6 lakhs for three consecutive years,so on the basis of this criterion i thought i could avail obc ncl.Writing exam in 2018.Confused about availing obc status now.
    Bro as far as I know if your income is within prescribed limit then you can get the OBC ncl certificate with no issues no matter what class your parents are employed (except government employees).
    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15
    1.equivalence has to be established by institution or DoPT
    2. 3 consecutive years rule applies here or not.(since 1 year income is below 6 lakhs)

    thank you
  • taknev202 said:

    Dead Man said:

    taknev202 said:

    try_hard said:

    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
    Madam/Sir, i havenot crossed 6 lakhs for three consecutive years,so on the basis of this criterion i thought i could avail obc ncl.Writing exam in 2018.Confused about availing obc status now.
    Bro as far as I know if your income is within prescribed limit then you can get the OBC ncl certificate with no issues no matter what class your parents are employed (except government employees).
    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15
    1.equivalence has to be established by institution or DoPT
    2. 3 consecutive years rule applies here or not.(since 1 year income is below 6 lakhs)

    thank you
    Bro there was issue of establishing the equivalence and the case regarding OBC ncl status of some aggrieved students of CSE was going on in Delhi high court (don't know exactly). If PSU / bank employees are considered by government then by the definition of government gazette you are considered as OBC ncl. I would recommend you to refer to the judgement of court in that case.
  • Don't think too much about ue OBC status,u r in obc ,.last yr i was also thinking too much much about it at at the end i found that m also eligible to get the benefit of obc...n the worst part thinking that income is the only criteria i never thought of writing capf exam thinking that i have already attained 25 yrs..n by the time i came to know i was already 28.(by the way my fathers income is also more than 6 lac)
    see kanoon .com for further clarification
  • FORICOS said:

    Don't think too much about ue OBC status,u r in obc ,.last yr i was also thinking too much much about it at at the end i found that m also eligible to get the benefit of obc...n the worst part thinking that income is the only criteria i never thought of writing capf exam thinking that i have already attained 25 yrs..n by the time i came to know i was already 28.(by the way my fathers income is also more than 6 lac)
    see kanoon .com for further clarification

    It is not about what I think, rather what the authority which is responsible for accepting my candidature thinks.
    I am filing an RTI. Highly unlikely that I will get an answer before the DAF submission date but still worth a try for now and for someone else in the future.
  • Dead Man said:

    Bro as far as I know that case regarding OBC ncl issue in CSE is pending in the Delhi High Court. Also there was thread regarding this on the forum do search for it. By the definition of government gazette PSU employees are not government employees and are treated just like others while granting ncl status.

    You are wrong in your assumption.
  • taknev202 said:

    try_hard said:

    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
    Madam/Sir, i havenot crossed 6 lakhs for three consecutive years,so on the basis of this criterion i thought i could avail obc ncl.Writing exam in 2018.Confused about availing obc status now.
    No problem for you
  • I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    There will be 40 - 50 candidates like you, dont worry and ten will be clearing again.
    Keep studying as the case will be probably won.
    See the service allocation for last year is still delayed, we assume it is only because of us.
    Even if it comes, service allocation will be tried for a stay.

    Another update:
    There was a stay for Chennai CAT judgement which was vacated very recently by HC which gives two options for DoPT - go to SC for stay whose chances are very less or to violate HC stay vacation and publish the allocation - in which the chances of getting stay are magnified.

    Any how, my advice for you is to not keep this in mind and keep studying.
  • I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    Actually that will not help, except a political or legal solution nothing will help.
  • try_hard said:

    taknev202 said:

    do i belong to ncl or not,father works in SBI clerk(class 3)
    (above 6 lakhs)2017-18
    (above 6 lakhs)2016-17
    (5.9 lakhs)2016-15

    How can you say class 3? As such no classification has been establshed in any cpsu or psbs.
    Almost all PSUs have classification.
  • Para 9 and para 10 of the OM No. 36033/5/2004 - Estt. (Res.) issued by DoPT are contradictory to each other. If you read the original OM No. 36012/22/93- Estt. (SCT) dated 8th September 1993, the schedule states that the employees of PSUs where equivalence of posts has not been established fall under category VI of the schedule. As such the income/wealth test will apply to them in such manner as described in category VI and clarified in para 10 of OM No. 36033/5/2004 - Estt. (Res.).
    Para 10 clarifies what "income from salaries and other sources shall not be clubbed" means -
    "In regard to clause (x) of para 4, it is clarified that while applying the Income/Wealth Test to determine creamy layer status of any candidate as given in Category-VI of the Schedule to the OM, income from the salaries and income from the agricultural land shall not be taken into account. It means that if income from salaries of the parents of any candidate is more than Rs. '2.5 lakh per annum, income from agricultural land is more than Rs. 2.5 Lakh per annum> but income from other sources is less than Rs. 2.5 lakh per annum> the candidate shall not be treated to be falling in creamy layer on the basis of Income/Wealth Test provided his parent(s) do not possess wealth above the exemption limit as prescribed in the Wealth Tax Act for a period of three consecutive years."

    But para 9 which reads -
    "Income of the parents from the salaries and from the other sources [ other than salaries and agricultural land] is determined separately. If either the income of the parents from the salaries or the income of the parents from other sources __ [ other than salari"es and agricultural land] exceeds the limit of Rs.2.5 lakh per annum for a period of three consecutive years, the ·sons and daughters of such persons shall be treated to fall in creamy layer. But the sons and daughters of parents whose· income from salaries is less than Rs. 2.5 lakh per annum and income from other sources is also Jess than Rs.2.5 lakh per annum will not be treated as falling in creamy lay r even if the sum of the income from salaries and the income from the other sources is more than Rs.2.5 lakh per annum for a period of three consecutive years. It may be noted that income from agricultural land is not taken into account while applying the Test."
    Contradicts para 10.


    *I need some coffee now*

  • @ obcpsu fight

    so sr did u get ur joining?
    actually m also having the same problem.my fathers last income was income was around 10 lacbut he has retired in june 2016.i have already given my 5 attempts of ifos(m not interested in civils) n m 29,now the dilema is if i consider myself as obc i can give my 6th attempt in 2018 otherwise m afraid should i give ifos in 2018 or not because i have been already twice kicked out of ifos interview n this yr i could not clear paper 2.pl guide me in this respect.Thank u
  • @obcpsu fight is there any format of certificate of equivalence that we are supposed to submit in the DAF in case the DoPT is ordered by the SC/HC/CAT to allocate the services to the affected OBC candidates?
  • naughty said:

    I gave this prelims as an OBC-NCL candidate and have qualified for mains. The problem is I thought that the old criteria for NCL (i.e. the wards of class 3 and 4 employees in PSU are in NCL irrespective of their income) is still prevalent. I got to know about the PSU debacle today, that how the 20 OBC candidates' candidature was cancelled because they were deemed to be in the creamy layer by the DoPT.
    DoPT says that they didn't have any established equivalence.
    My question is - Who establishes equivalence? Is it the central government or the PSU?
    My father works as a class 3 employee in a PSU. If he gets an equivalence certificate from his employer would that help?
    Should I not fill DAF and simply skip this attempt?
    Anyone else in the same situation as me?

    Wait for this year allocation of job, this is a big issue now, first see what happens this year but if you have cleared pt as general category score then not to worry much. Try to clear mains also as general category candidate
    But how would I know if I have cleared mains as a general category candidate? UPSC won't declare the cut off marks and a candidate's marks in prelims until the exam cycle ends. Also, the UPSC doesn't allow switching categories within the exam cycle. So If I filled the form for prelims in the OBC category then I will have to fill the form for mains in the same category. Correct me if I am wrong.
    Just check your marks, if it is above 110 approx then probably you have cleared in general category
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