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Furthering the Constitutional identity

edited January 27 in Polity & Governance
The context: The author is discussing the Bommai case and its effect.
By invoking the BSD in support of the national governments the SC in effect was liberating the Centre to be a proactive player in fulfilling the aspirations that it, the Court, had certified as high priority goals.
Now the author goes on to say the Court is not ratcheting up the familiar doctrine of affirmative constitutional obligations as this would likely cause a resistance that could precipitate a constitutional crisis and this is one reason to think the Court will be reluctant to push the envelope very far.

What are the various possible ways that it would lead to crisis.
What can be the other reasons.
Thoughts invited!
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Comments

  • Vai law optional wale lagte ho!
    An Ounce of Action Is Worth a Ton of Theory
  • ^Lol. Ye sab doubts hain bas. Law optional se kya relation inka. My optional is not law.
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  • ^^
    Bhai, Akki, 1989 ki paidayish, tera dimaag to thik thaak hai naa.

    Ek baat kahun. Tujhe buraa to lagega. Par keh hi detaa hoon.
    Tere ye haalaat rahe to mains, interview aur merit to chhod, teraa pre bhi clear nhi hoga CSE kaa. Likh ke de diya hai dekh tujhe.

    Liberal-intellectual ban ne ki koshish mat kar. Ye JNU-chhaap baatein keval door door se achchi lagti hain. Asliyat me ye sickular log istemaal kar ke phenk dete hain tere jaison ko. Used condom ki tarah.

    Keval utnaa padh jitnaa kaam aaye.

    All the best.
    CSM 2015 | CSE 2016 - Ranked it Out!!
    Thank Lord Shiva...
  • edited January 27
    ^ Pagla gayel baa lagta hai... :D :D
    Are bhai ye sab genuine discussions hain. Lol. Book me dekh lo aur baki sab questions me bhi dikhegi. Sab me sickularism thode hai.
    LOL.
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  • edited January 27

    ^^
    Bhai, Akki, 1989 ki paidayish, tera dimaag to thik thaak hai naa.

    Ek baat kahun. Tujhe buraa to lagega. Par keh hi detaa hoon.
    Tere ye haalaat rahe to mains, interview aur merit to chhod, teraa pre bhi clear nhi hoga CSE kaa. Likh ke de diya hai dekh tujhe.

    Liberal-intellectual ban ne ki koshish mat kar. Ye JNU-chhaap baatein keval door door se achchi lagti hain. Asliyat me ye sickular log istemaal kar ke phenk dete hain tere jaison ko. Used condom ki tarah.

    Keval utnaa padh jitnaa kaam aaye.


    All the best.

    Aur ye bakar mat kro please :mrgreen: sale forum pe itna load loge to service me to pel hi denge. Preconceived notions banana achchi baat nahi. Very immature. >:)
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  • I think that the court has already pushed the envelope very far. In my opinion constitutional crisis meant the encroachment of judiciary in the policy making sphere of the executive violating separation of powers. I think this started more vigorously with the dawn of PIL era. This is the reason which I can think of. Not sure of the "other reasons" though. :)
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  • Struggle said:

    I think that the court has already pushed the envelope very far. In my opinion constitutional crisis meant the encroachment of judiciary in the policy making sphere of the executive violating separation of powers. I think this started more vigorously with the dawn of PIL era. This is the reason which I can think of. Not sure of the "other reasons" though. :)

    Thanks for the addition bhai. Makes sense.
    Jugaad ho gayi buddy.
    Ek friend mil gaya hai. Thanks anyway bhai.
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  • Don't just post questions. Post your understanding/views as well.

    It serves multiple purposes. It gives a starting point for someone who may be interested in discussing, but is not be clear on the doubt being asked. It provides your views on the topic which are equally important. It gives everyone glimpse of your understanding about topics pre-requisite to understanding the current doubt. Many more too.

    There is more than one constitutional crises being alluded to here in my opinion btw.
    A Lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.


  • There is more than one constitutional crises being alluded to here in my opinion btw.

    What more? just curious.
  • edited January 30
    smoke said:



    There is more than one constitutional crises being alluded to here in my opinion btw.

    What more? just curious.

    I forgot what I had prepared on this topic that day, I could visualize 2-3 ways. BTW I decided as a first priority to finish the text ASAP, will jump to discussions and brainstroming on the Forum then only.

    Ratcheting up affirmative constitutional obligations could cause a resistance from the state -

    1. Too much pressure on govts. to expend resources to advance ends for the fulfillment of those obligations that acc. to court further are necessary to further the cause (of welfare) >> too much pressure on govt machinery >> could precipitate in a crisis

    2. Judicial overreach >> clash with the legislature and executive wings >> doctrine of separation of power undermined >> too much power to judiciary can destablize the whole framework

    3. Bosnia and Herzegovina situation

    Tangential effects of the judiciary spreading its wings too much -

    Rule of Law >> undermines the Common Law >> could cause public distaste in the judiciary >> undermining of judicial legitimacy

    Unaccountability (as judges are not the elected representatives answerablr to their constituencies) >> Corruption >> Subjugation of justice

    Politicisation of Judiciary >> Once judiciary gets extended powers, all senior judicial appointments could be affected by political interests

    Irresponsible decisions in the name of public welfare(uncertain future implications) -
    Legalisation of Marijuana (US)
    Prohibition of liquor (led to bootlegging, smuggling, etc)
    Abortion on demand (US)
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  • Don't just post questions. Post your understanding/views as well.

    It serves multiple purposes. It gives a starting point for someone who may be interested in discussing, but is not be clear on the doubt being asked. It provides your views on the topic which are equally important. It gives everyone glimpse of your understanding about topics pre-requisite to understanding the current doubt. Many more too.

    There is more than one constitutional crises being alluded to here in my opinion btw.

    I get it now. The context does seem unclear, after coming back to this question post these couple of days I realize that this could pose a problem to those who have not read the book. Will have to hit a few more keyboard keys I guess. Thanks.
    PS - Too much of time paucity, hehe. Not finding sufficient time even to post questions. The book is humongous. Hehe. Thanks anyway. I'll jump over here as soon as I finish the text. :)
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  • edited January 30
    smoke said:



    There is more than one constitutional crises being alluded to here in my opinion btw.

    What more? just curious.

    "The context: The author is discussing the Bommai case and its effect. (LINE 1)

    By invoking the BSD in support of the national governments the SC in effect was liberating the Centre to be a proactive player in fulfilling the aspirations that it, the Court, had certified as high priority goals. (LINE 2)

    Now the author goes on to say the Court is not ratcheting up the familiar doctrine of affirmative constitutional obligations as this would likely cause a resistance that could precipitate a constitutional crisis (LINE 3) and this is one reason to think the Court will be reluctant to push the envelope very far."

    Line 1: Strict context is Bommai case. Constitutional Crisis (CC): Federal vs State: Federal nature of constitution
    Line 2: BSD. Type of CC: Again federal crisis. Also judiciary vs legislature/executive - because certifying goals is not the job of court. Judicial overreach as @-struggle suggested above.
    Line 3: Affirmative Constitutional Obligation. Type of CC: Same as above. Also FR vs DPSP. Also executive vs judiciary because of resource crunch and executive prerogative on resource utilization.
    A Lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.
  • smoke said:



    There is more than one constitutional crises being alluded to here in my opinion btw.

    What more? just curious.

    "The context: The author is discussing the Bommai case and its effect. (LINE 1)

    By invoking the BSD in support of the national governments the SC in effect was liberating the Centre to be a proactive player in fulfilling the aspirations that it, the Court, had certified as high priority goals. (LINE 2)

    Now the author goes on to say the Court is not ratcheting up the familiar doctrine of affirmative constitutional obligations as this would likely cause a resistance that could precipitate a constitutional crisis (LINE 3) and this is one reason to think the Court will be reluctant to push the envelope very far."

    Line 1: Strict context is Bommai case. Constitutional Crisis (CC): Federal vs State: Federal nature of constitution
    Line 2: BSD. Type of CC: Again federal crisis. Also judiciary vs legislature/executive - because certifying goals is not the job of court. Judicial overreach as @-struggle suggested above.
    Line 3: Affirmative Constitutional Obligation. Type of CC: Same as above. Also FR vs DPSP. Also executive vs judiciary because of resource crunch and executive prerogative on resource utilization.
    So awesomely put. Thanks a lot!
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  • @akkib89 I read the book but few months back.... seen your threads but found it too complex to put my thoughts into words...
    I understood your views here. I know I should be worried about prelims more than anything else at this point. But that said, wondering why allowing Abortion on Demand would be irresponsible.
  • @Jaime_Lannister Complex thing put simply. Thanks!
  • edited January 31
    smoke said:

    @akkib89 I read the book but few months back.... seen your threads but found it too complex to put my thoughts into words...
    I understood your views here. I know I should be worried about prelims more than anything else at this point. But that said, wondering why allowing Abortion on Demand would be irresponsible.

    Bhai I understand you
    Abortion ko mai 'resposible' decision to nahi hi bolunga (I am not against the usage of contraceptives); baki ye to bahot debatable situation hai hi, par isne infidelity ko badawa to diya hi hoga kuch had tak.
    Bhai, ab isme liberal intellectualism ghusedoge to they will justify everything, par aapko pata hai kuch do teen decisions ke karan aaj US society puri tabah hai. Bhai ek epidemiology wali study ki thi whole US ko lekar maine (jab naukri karta hai) - us samay DSM IV ke according hi mental illness check karte the. Bahot grimly situation hai bhai waha, society khud me hi tang hai.
    Ab in sab baton ko bas discuss nahi karte because they are not politically correct. Jaise jab feminism wave aaya tha to initially it was good, pur ab people dislike it there (3rd phase hai shayad). Isliye jabtak koi scientif ic study nahi karega co-relation baithane ke liye, till then ispar prashn chinh nahi utha sakte (tobacco par bhi nahi uthta tha). Plus iske effects inta gible hi hain.
    Isliye bahot hi zyada debatable topic hai. Isme baad me kabhi discuss karenge. :)
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  • @akkib89 arey bhai utna deep knowledge to nahi hai is issue me... But (don't accuse me of liberalism) my stand on issues range from being far right to extreme left depending on the situation. Responsibility with relation to abortion is better left to individual. Infedility ka baat hamesha nahi hota. And (don't accuse me of feminism) consider a case where contraceptive methods fail and one does not want to bear a child. It kind of bothers me when the issue is locked in a feminist frame. At times when the decision of abortion is taken even a man is (directly or indirectly) involved. It has to be looked at as a matter of individual choice without gender colour (I think I overthink). Anyways have no idea on US society's take on this. Aur mental illness se kya relation hai?

    BTW on marijuana and alcohol thing, i see a paradox. The same arguments that do not support ban on liquor (black market etc) fail with the govt when asked to legalise marijuana.
  • smoke said:

    @akkib89 arey bhai utna deep knowledge to nahi hai is issue me... But (don't accuse me of liberalism) my stand on issues range from being far right to extreme left depending on the situation. Responsibility with relation to abortion is better left to individual. Infedility ka baat hamesha nahi hota. And (don't accuse me of feminism) consider a case where contraceptive methods fail and one does not want to bear a child. It kind of bothers me when the issue is locked in a feminist frame. At times when the decision of abortion is taken even a man is (directly or indirectly) involved. It has to be looked at as a matter of individual choice without gender colour (I think I overthink). Anyways have no idea on US society's take on this. Aur mental illness se kya relation hai?

    BTW on marijuana and alcohol thing, i see a paradox. The same arguments that do not support ban on liquor (black market etc) fail with the govt when asked to legalise marijuana.

    :mrgreen: Arre apko accuse nahi kar rha yr ye liberalism ya feminism ke bhai. Waise mat lo.
    Jab ham log koi epidemiological study krte the to usme questinnaires hua krte the survey wale. Sample size bhi bahot bada rhta tha. Wo cdc ka data tha shayad. Usme in sab type ki questions hua krti thin, jime faithfullness of partner, trust deficit wagerah parameters hamlog DSM 4 se correlate karke weights dalkar uski plotting karte the. Maine jo reserch kri thi usme to sla 40% logon me bahot zyada insecurity aur trust breach dikhi apne partners ko lekar. Isliye ye baat zehan me aayi, wo questionnaire ke questions isse kuch related type the. Correlation hai ya nahi ye to exactly main bhi sure nahi. Par hota kya hai, jab admi ko abortion on demand doge to wo thoda nischint ho zata Hai - ek last resort to mil hi jata hai na.
    Apart from that is topic k aur bhi dimesions se approach kar sakte hain - Jaise constituional, ethical wagera wagera.

    Feminist frame was an example to convey ki ati kharab hoti hai hamesh, nothing related to this issue.

    Bahot fizul ki bakar kr rha hoon. Aise arguments present krne se kuch to hone wala nahi. Sahi mindframe rhega to discuss krte hain. Abhi maaf krna bhai.

    :mrgreen:
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