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IR: China- Really a threat or Political drama?

Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:
Its Not What You Did These Days That Matter!
It Is Final 100 Days Countdown That Matters!

Comments

  • Whoaa, definitely we have more than enough reasons to be suspicious of China.

    1. let's look at recent history : China is expanding it's sphere of influence in south asian and south-east asian region. (string of pearls, one belt initiative, aggressive naval policy) and India is it's main contender in south asian region
    2. China has strategic interest in PoK : Not only Gwadar and One belt initiative but its one of the province also borders PoK. Residents have no ethnic or cultural similarities with mainland china. So China is also worried of terrorism entering it's territory through Pok into Chinese Province. Hence, it is trying to keep strong hold of Pak over PoK.
    3. Now if Trump wins and if he reconciles US-RU relations, it will be better for IN. However if Clinton wins, there are very less chances of reconciliations and both US-RU will lose, however as in a story of panchtantra, in the fight between two cats (RU-US) the monkey (China) will benefit the most.
    4. However, after modi government has come to power, it has been very active on this front and has deployed various tactics to counter this chinese invasion in economy and territory. Eg. Chahbahar port, make in IN,etc.

    PS : Haven't you heard that IN has deployed recently T-72 tanks on Aksai china border and Brahmos on Arunachal border ? I believe this fact alone proves the deteriorated relations between IN-CHN.
  • Whoaa, definitely we have more than enough reasons to be suspicious of China.

    1. let's look at recent history : China is expanding it's sphere of influence in south asian and south-east asian region. (string of pearls, one belt initiative, aggressive naval policy) and India is it's main contender in south asian region
    2. China has strategic interest in PoK : Not only Gwadar and One belt initiative but its one of the province also borders PoK. Residents have no ethnic or cultural similarities with mainland china. So China is also worried of terrorism entering it's territory through Pok into Chinese Province. Hence, it is trying to keep strong hold of Pak over PoK.
    3. Now if Trump wins and if he reconciles US-RU relations, it will be better for IN. However if Clinton wins, there are very less chances of reconciliations and both US-RU will lose, however as in a story of panchtantra, in the fight between two cats (RU-US) the monkey (China) will benefit the most.
    4. However, after modi government has come to power, it has been very active on this front and has deployed various tactics to counter this chinese invasion in economy and territory. Eg. Chahbahar port, make in IN,etc.

    PS : Haven't you heard that IN has deployed recently T-72 tanks on Aksai china border and Brahmos on Arunachal border ? I believe this fact alone proves the deteriorated relations between IN-CHN.

    Bhai, thanks.., But my question was entirely different... There are many more facts more than what you said that everyone knows... But my question was, why should we look at it suspiciously? why reason for doubt? only because its supporting Pakistan and because of our past Indo china war?

    Or are we being blind and are we being a fool in considering China as an opportunity rather than threat?
    Its Not What You Did These Days That Matter!
    It Is Final 100 Days Countdown That Matters!
  • @CreatingRevolution Bhai I don't know if you can find it online somewhere or not but if you do, you will see that current actual LAC is into IN border and not where it is generally showed on map. There is a place called raki Nala which CHN wanted to occupy and is very crucial strategic location. However as of now stand off between two armies prevail there. CHN has deployed 3 steps forward, 2 steps backward policy at LAC.

    2nd about Gwadar, have you seen its location? It's so located that if CHN has control over it during time of war or retaliation it can severe our oil import very effectively. You can search about this point on Internet to get elaborate answer.

    There are other such issues as well, but I believe when national integrity and sovereignty at stake just 1 reason is also sufficient to prepare for the worst.
  • banana said:

    banana said:

    Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
    I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
    But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
    Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
    How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

    What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

    Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

    PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:

    Why else would any country support Pakistan?
    Yes bec Real Politik and Spheres of influence overlap
    it has become one in SCS and in Japan case. Has border dispute with us, so it may become assertive

    No bec war can literally rip China apart, economically and political unrest people

    Just my understanding
    Bhai...Thanks...
    But what are ur views about my thoughts "Western media imposing fears on us about China to fulfill their strategic interests?"
    :)
    Its Not What You Did These Days That Matter!
    It Is Final 100 Days Countdown That Matters!
  • banana said:

    banana said:

    Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
    I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
    But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
    Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
    How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

    What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

    Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

    PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:

    Why else would any country support Pakistan?
    Yes bec Real Politik and Spheres of influence overlap
    it has become one in SCS and in Japan case. Has border dispute with us, so it may become assertive

    No bec war can literally rip China apart, economically and political unrest people

    Just my understanding
    Bhai...Thanks...
    But what are ur views about my thoughts "Western media imposing fears on us about China to fulfill their strategic interests?"
    :)
    Policymakers are way too intelligent to be swayed by western media. All this hullabaloo is limited to the general populace. Behind closed doors, both sides are making policies that serve their own strategic interests; the media plays no role, or a peripheral role at best.
    Prelims: 4. Mains: 2*. Interview: 1. Rank: NA.
    Literature of English Language.
    "Only through time time is conquered."
  • edited November 2016

    banana said:

    banana said:

    Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
    I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
    But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
    Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
    How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

    What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

    Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

    PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:

    Why else would any country support Pakistan?
    Yes bec Real Politik and Spheres of influence overlap
    it has become one in SCS and in Japan case. Has border dispute with us, so it may become assertive

    No bec war can literally rip China apart, economically and political unrest people

    Just my understanding
    Bhai...Thanks...
    But what are ur views about my thoughts "Western media imposing fears on us about China to fulfill their strategic interests?"
    :)
    Policymakers are way too intelligent to be swayed by western media. All this hullabaloo is limited to the general populace. Behind closed doors, both sides are making policies that serve their own strategic interests; the media plays no role, or a peripheral role at best.
    Oh doc... But Indian middle class play a big role na? :) I mean they wanted India to be near to USA., and thus on middle class opinion our govt did so... This is what i read somewhere.
    Isnt this reality then? :)

    Or behind the screen lobbying ? :tongue:
    Its Not What You Did These Days That Matter!
    It Is Final 100 Days Countdown That Matters!
  • banana said:

    banana said:

    Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
    I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
    But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
    Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
    How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

    What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

    Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

    PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:

    Why else would any country support Pakistan?
    Yes bec Real Politik and Spheres of influence overlap
    it has become one in SCS and in Japan case. Has border dispute with us, so it may become assertive

    No bec war can literally rip China apart, economically and political unrest people

    Just my understanding
    Bhai...Thanks...
    But what are ur views about my thoughts "Western media imposing fears on us about China to fulfill their strategic interests?"
    :)
    Policymakers are way too intelligent to be swayed by western media. All this hullabaloo is limited to the general populace. Behind closed doors, both sides are making policies that serve their own strategic interests; the media plays no role, or a peripheral role at best.
    Oh doc... But Indian middle class play a big role na? :) I mean they wanted India to be near to USA., and thus on middle class opinion our govt did so... This is what i read somewhere.
    Isnt this reality then? :)

    Or behind the screen lobbying ? :tongue:
    Arre nahi yaar.. Citizenry does play a role, and taking care of their interests is why the leaders are chosen.
    But the shift towards US has been ongoing since more than a decade for several reasons, not only the China angle.
    Nuclear power, diaspora, software exports and trade, FDI etc. are some of them.
    You meant to say that US is using India for it's own purposes, but actually, India and US are both using each other to further their strategic interests.
    It is not that India is shifting towards US because the middle-class wants it, it is shifting so that the shift can help the country, and by extension it's citizens, in more ways than one. There's a difference.
    Prelims: 4. Mains: 2*. Interview: 1. Rank: NA.
    Literature of English Language.
    "Only through time time is conquered."
  • We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    Pakistan-China nexus is worrying though!


    Agar war lag gya, China Pakistan ko support karega!
    An Ounce of Action Is Worth a Ton of Theory
  • Koi war nahi lagega bhai. No country's economy can handle a war at this time.
    It'll be limited to border skirmishes and bleeding from a thousand cuts.
    Prelims: 4. Mains: 2*. Interview: 1. Rank: NA.
    Literature of English Language.
    "Only through time time is conquered."
  • We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    Yahi baat kabhi dosto ke samne bata diya toh bahut gali padhti. Sahi mein India ki aukaat nahi Hai kuch China ke samne for the time being.
  • jaljal
    edited November 2016

    We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    I don't think so. India has direct access to Indian ocean and that is what worries China more than US. Most of its external trade is dependent on Indian ocean routes,with critical access to energy and markets.Hence it is trying to circumvent these routes via CPEC, which they have defined as their core interest, as it will make trade routes through Pakistan: a friendly coountry. What may be worrying China is Increasing Indo-US closeness as It may be strengthen capabilities of both India,(China's Neighbour) and US( as it will get a friendly country in backyard of China, which doesn'r share a complete bonhomie with China.
  • We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    Pakistan-China nexus is worrying though!


    Agar war lag gya, China Pakistan ko support karega!
    yeh sab kahne ki baat hai. IR mein koi permanent enemy or friends nahi hote :p. In times of war, cost of action/inaction will decide the alignment.
    Russia's support for India is also based on this consideration.
    See, now it has started drifting towrads Pakistan through it military exercises and arms sale :#
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • jaljal
    edited November 2016
    .
  • jal said:

    We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    I don't think so. India has direct access to Indian ocean and that is what worries China more than US. Most of its external trade is dependent on Indian ocean routes,with critical access to energy and markets.Hence it is trying to circumvent these routes via CPEC, which they have defined as their core interest, as it will make trade routes through Pakistan: a friendly coountry. What may be worrying China is Increasing Indo-US closeness as It may be strengthen capabilities of both India,(China's Neighbour) and US( as it will get a friendly country in backyard of China, which doesn'r share a complete bonhomie with China.
    That CPEC project and Gwadar port is more of commercial in nature rather as strategic tool to contain India. Everyone knows that development of 1-2 bases in Indian ocean can't really match the might of Indian navy in its own backyard. We can easily blockade ports and have the capability to do so. Don't look everything with suspicion :D
    Even US knows that countering Indian navy in Indian ocean is beyond their limit.
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • banana said:

    banana said:

    Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
    I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
    But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
    Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
    How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

    What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

    Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

    PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:

    Why else would any country support Pakistan?
    Yes bec Real Politik and Spheres of influence overlap
    it has become one in SCS and in Japan case. Has border dispute with us, so it may become assertive

    No bec war can literally rip China apart, economically and political unrest people

    Just my understanding
    Bhai...Thanks...
    But what are ur views about my thoughts "Western media imposing fears on us about China to fulfill their strategic interests?"
    :)
    Policymakers are way too intelligent to be swayed by western media. All this hullabaloo is limited to the general populace. Behind closed doors, both sides are making policies that serve their own strategic interests; the media plays no role, or a peripheral role at best.
    Oh doc... But Indian middle class play a big role na? :) I mean they wanted India to be near to USA., and thus on middle class opinion our govt did so... This is what i read somewhere.
    Isnt this reality then? :)

    Or behind the screen lobbying ? :tongue:

    @CreatingRevolution Dude did you seriously just say that ? Let me tell you something (excuse me if I am being blunt) : 1. in IR there are several approaches like realism, liberalism but NEVER optimism. You will definitely not create a revolution in IR with that rather only blunder.
    2. As one of the experts once told me "In IR, you read less and think more". So please use that organ which is up there.
    3. Analysis of past events and estimating possible future outcomes are two very different things. Actually the first is a mere subset of the latter.
  • jaljal
    edited November 2016

    jal said:

    We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    I don't think so. India has direct access to Indian ocean and that is what worries China more than US. Most of its external trade is dependent on Indian ocean routes,with critical access to energy and markets.Hence it is trying to circumvent these routes via CPEC, which they have defined as their core interest, as it will make trade routes through Pakistan: a friendly coountry. What may be worrying China is Increasing Indo-US closeness as It may be strengthen capabilities of both India,(China's Neighbour) and US( as it will get a friendly country in backyard of China, which doesn'r share a complete bonhomie with China.
    That CPEC project and Gwadar port is more of commercial in nature rather as strategic tool to contain India. Everyone knows that development of 1-2 bases in Indian ocean can't really match the might of Indian navy in its own backyard. We can easily blockade ports and have the capability to do so. Don't look everything with suspicion :D
    Even US knows that countering Indian navy in Indian ocean is beyond their limit.
    Are bhai you are confusing things.....At present Securing trade routes in Indian ocean is a priority for China..So in a sense safeguarding its economic interest has become its strategic interest in Indian ocean. By opening CPEC ,it intends to bypass the strategic leverage India has in Indian ocean. You know all strategic interests eventually boils down to economic interests. If China didn't have any economic interest in Indian ocean, Our relationship would be far more healthier. It is not that we inherently hate each other. It is all about growing suspicion about each other.
  • jal said:

    jal said:

    We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    I don't think so. India has direct access to Indian ocean and that is what worries China more than US. Most of its external trade is dependent on Indian ocean routes,with critical access to energy and markets.Hence it is trying to circumvent these routes via CPEC, which they have defined as their core interest, as it will make trade routes through Pakistan: a friendly coountry. What may be worrying China is Increasing Indo-US closeness as It may be strengthen capabilities of both India,(China's Neighbour) and US( as it will get a friendly country in backyard of China, which doesn'r share a complete bonhomie with China.
    That CPEC project and Gwadar port is more of commercial in nature rather as strategic tool to contain India. Everyone knows that development of 1-2 bases in Indian ocean can't really match the might of Indian navy in its own backyard. We can easily blockade ports and have the capability to do so. Don't look everything with suspicion :D
    Even US knows that countering Indian navy in Indian ocean is beyond their limit.
    Are bhai you are confusing things.....At present Securing trade routes in Indian ocean is a priority for China..So in a sense safeguarding its economic interest has become its strategic interest in Indian ocean. By opening CPEC ,it intends to bypass the strategic leverage India has in Indian ocean. You know all strategic interests eventually boils down to economic interests.
    That's what I'm saying.
    China knows that it cannot bypass the strategic leverage that we have in the Indian ocean due to our unique geographical position.
    India can easily block Malacca Strait and we can easily block Gwadar Port. So how can they bypass this.
    We have this leverage and it will always remain as so, no matter what
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • jal said:

    jal said:

    We are too insignificant a country for China. It's the Indian mentality that thinks China's projects are aimed at limiting the rise of India. Frankly, I think they are much more concerned with what US does.

    I don't think so. India has direct access to Indian ocean and that is what worries China more than US. Most of its external trade is dependent on Indian ocean routes,with critical access to energy and markets.Hence it is trying to circumvent these routes via CPEC, which they have defined as their core interest, as it will make trade routes through Pakistan: a friendly coountry. What may be worrying China is Increasing Indo-US closeness as It may be strengthen capabilities of both India,(China's Neighbour) and US( as it will get a friendly country in backyard of China, which doesn'r share a complete bonhomie with China.
    That CPEC project and Gwadar port is more of commercial in nature rather as strategic tool to contain India. Everyone knows that development of 1-2 bases in Indian ocean can't really match the might of Indian navy in its own backyard. We can easily blockade ports and have the capability to do so. Don't look everything with suspicion :D
    Even US knows that countering Indian navy in Indian ocean is beyond their limit.
    Are bhai you are confusing things.....At present Securing trade routes in Indian ocean is a priority for China..So in a sense safeguarding its economic interest has become its strategic interest in Indian ocean. By opening CPEC ,it intends to bypass the strategic leverage India has in Indian ocean. You know all strategic interests eventually boils down to economic interests.
    That's what I'm saying.
    China knows that it cannot bypass the strategic leverage that we have in the Indian ocean due to our unique geographical position.
    India can easily block Malacca Strait and we can easily block Gwadar Port. So how can they bypass this.
    We have this leverage and it will always remain as so, no matter what
    :D :D So China does have a good reason to worry about India, It is not just mentality. I think we are saying same thing.
  • Bro leverage hone ka yeh matlab nahi hai ki they should worry about us.
    Yeh sab toh diplomatic tools hai jo negotiations mein kaam aate hain.
    We have leverage over many island countries in Indian Ocean, but that doesn't mean they all see India as a threat
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • Sahi Bhai kuch discussion to chalu rakho.. ye forum pe itni khamoshi mujhe dara rahi h.. :D
    chai sutta bhi band kar diya kya logo ne..abhi bhi 14 din baki he dosto!!
  • Bro leverage hone ka yeh matlab nahi hai ki they should worry about us.
    Yeh sab toh diplomatic tools hai jo negotiations mein kaam aate hain.
    We have leverage over many island countries in Indian Ocean, but that doesn't mean they all see India as a threat

    OhhKkkk...understood..I think we were engaged in battle of perception :)
  • seed_15 said:

    Sahi Bhai kuch discussion to chalu rakho.. ye forum pe itni khamoshi mujhe dara rahi h.. :D
    chai sutta bhi band kar diya kya logo ne..abhi bhi 14 din baki he dosto!!

    buss vhi chal rha sirf :/ :/
  • edited November 2016
    m thinking to write here one comment about china but will not ...no one reply me ..... coz my profile name is not good
    :/

    PS--time over ..chai sutta khatm :D
  • kadduu said:

    m thinking to write here one comment about china but will not ...no one reply me ..... coz my profile name is not good
    :/

    PS--time over ..chai sutta khatm :D

    @kadduu toh kaafi accha naam hai
    The day we decided that the worth of an individual was determined by their performance in an examination, that was the day Education failed us.

    Long live Revolution, Down with ForumIAS. Ban me Mods
  • edited November 2016

    Should we be really be worried and so suspicious about China?
    I mean, look, we want Pakistan to be convinced that whatever we do in Afghanistan is to gain access to west and central asia.
    But when China does something why should we be so suspicions?
    Is it really because of US media which Indian media blindly follows?
    How true is the image US media where it projects China as dragon is true?

    What affects will these things have after Trump wins?

    Oh god, why why why why? :wink:

    PS: Had a glass of water.. :tongue:

    Suspicious, no.
    Make a hype, no.
    Keep a track: yes.
    It's true that it's a propaganda of media to downgrade China always. If it's not so, why every businessmen of US or INDIA want to go there. US never signed UNCLOS on the basis of a contention that following it would give Russia access to huge reserves of resources in the Arctic and call this unfair but it's always ready to paint China black akin to demon in case of south China Sea dispute citing violation of UNCLOS provisions. I am not saying China's stand in S.C. Sea is vindicated but how can you point a finger on someone on basis of sth u don't want to follow itself.
    For China, most of its actions are economy based. It know, or it always knew that bringing so much of population at levels of standard which could be appreciated is a daunting task, but it did it and that too in two decades with population nearly 1.5 times that of India.
    All of its projects are focussed and made to increase its access to global markets in every continent. And any project that India, US, or Japan brings is less based on economic considerations and more on countering China. Their politicians think to work and improve lives of their people more faster than possible and our politicians think to play politics more rather than to improve lives of our people.

    Definitely China has its own interests just like every other country does. But it is not the only country to have so. For West, every country who is rising is a threat to their own hegemony of decades in which they want to rule. Previously by ways of slavery and colonialism, now by way of trade and economy dominance. They know, China is now second in world in original research papers published. They are now making their own defence equipments, aircrafts, space science etc. That's what makes them feel insecure because these were the subjects through which they have built their dominance around the world.

    China has not even risen yet fully, and West became so scared that they even elected Trump for jobs. Imagine what after the OBOR and MSR gets successful. Most of the trade origin will shift to East then to China. Even US has now accepted AIIB to be a significant body and Considering to join it.

    I know I may be wrong, pretty much wrong at many places but I think we allowed politics to dominate over the well being of our society rather than the required vice-versa.
    GRAPHENE v 2.0....
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