[Baswan Committee] Govt clarified to not to take any action on age or attempt

Robinson_crusoe

http://epaper.livehindustan.com/story.aspx?id=1499983&boxid=79772456&ed_date=2016-10-24&ed_code=1&ed_page=1

http://epaper.livehindustan.com/story.aspx?id=1499999&boxid=79727574&ed_date=2016-10-24&ed_code=1&ed_page=17


@DrKingSchultz kindly announce this

DrKingSchultz

Any other source?
Some facts in the article are wrong, so veracity of this claim is doubtful.

Meri_Maut_Ka_Tamasha

farzi news , reduction hoga age ka

Robinson_crusoe

DrKingSchultz said:

Any other source?
Some facts in the article are wrong, so veracity of this claim is doubtful.

not yet but i think it will be out soon. Facts may be wrong but they have said clearly through 'sources' that in this attempt nothing will change. Mostly it is right, this newspaper is responsible newspaper as far as I know.

fieryfiesta

With UP election in sight, it wasn't going to happen anyways

upsc_socio_2017

Kabhi nahi hogi age reduce...warna fir wahi drama ...koi equality ki duhai dega to koi pichde pan ki...koi gramin ilako ki shiksha vyavastha ka rona royega to koi kisi aur ka...upar se vipaksh..uske liye to mudda he mil jayega ....

In nutshell , it's not going to implement ever.

pks11630

I knew it long ago...

The election cycle of India is a boon in many ways. And I don't mean it sarcastically. People say that a lot of 'bite the bullet' implementations are hindered by the regular elections.
I say that a lot of 'elitist' decisions also get scuttled by the evenly distributed elections. Lowering the age limit, restricting attempts etc. are bunch of elitist decisions with no empirical and at best a fallacious philosophical base.

I strongly support:
# age limit 40 years for all
# unlimited attempts for all
# NO application fees for all (including UR boys)
# ALL 'A' and 'B' group posts taken through a single exam twice every year. Same for 'C' and 'D' group.
# All state PSCs constitutionally brought together on an 'Inter-State Council' type platform (or even NITI type platform) and a common prelims and mains for all participating states every year. (just like participating banks in IBPS PO) [participating State PSCs can take the language and local GK paper separately at a later stage before interview.]
# All competitive exams and all their stages to be objective, OMR-type only.

fieryfiesta

pks11630 said:

I knew it long ago...

The election cycle of India is a boon in many ways. And I don't mean it sarcastically. People say that a lot of 'bite the bullet' implementations are hindered by the regular elections.
I say that a lot of 'elitist' decisions also get scuttled by the evenly distributed elections. Lowering the age limit, restricting attempts etc. are bunch of elitist decisions with no empirical and at best a fallacious philosophical base.

I strongly support:
# age limit 40 years for all
# unlimited attempts for all
# NO application fees for all (including UR boys)
# ALL 'A' and 'B' group posts taken through a single exam twice every year. Same for 'C' and 'D' group.
# All state PSCs constitutionally brought together on an 'Inter-State Council' type platform (or even NITI type platform) and a common prelims and mains for all participating states every year. (just like participating banks in IBPS PO) [participating State PSCs can take the language and local GK paper separately at a later stage before interview.]
# All competitive exams and all their stages to be objective, OMR-type only.

using google in the exam hall should also be allowed

Mathsoptional

pks11630 said:

I knew it long ago...

The election cycle of India is a boon in many ways. And I don't mean it sarcastically. People say that a lot of 'bite the bullet' implementations are hindered by the regular elections.
I say that a lot of 'elitist' decisions also get scuttled by the evenly distributed elections. Lowering the age limit, restricting attempts etc. are bunch of elitist decisions with no empirical and at best a fallacious philosophical base.

I strongly support:
# age limit 40 years for all
# unlimited attempts for all
# NO application fees for all (including UR boys)
# ALL 'A' and 'B' group posts taken through a single exam twice every year. Same for 'C' and 'D' group.
# All state PSCs constitutionally brought together on an 'Inter-State Council' type platform (or even NITI type platform) and a common prelims and mains for all participating states every year. (just like participating banks in IBPS PO) [participating State PSCs can take the language and local GK paper separately at a later stage before interview.]
# All competitive exams and all their stages to be objective, OMR-type only.

bhai I respect u. may be age limit is a little too much, but otherwise perfect...

Mistral

pks11630 said:

I knew it long ago...

The election cycle of India is a boon in many ways. And I don't mean it sarcastically. People say that a lot of 'bite the bullet' implementations are hindered by the regular elections.
I say that a lot of 'elitist' decisions also get scuttled by the evenly distributed elections. Lowering the age limit, restricting attempts etc. are bunch of elitist decisions with no empirical and at best a fallacious philosophical base.

I strongly support:
# age limit 40 years for all
# unlimited attempts for all
# NO application fees for all (including UR boys)
# ALL 'A' and 'B' group posts taken through a single exam twice every year. Same for 'C' and 'D' group.
# All state PSCs constitutionally brought together on an 'Inter-State Council' type platform (or even NITI type platform) and a common prelims and mains for all participating states every year. (just like participating banks in IBPS PO) [participating State PSCs can take the language and local GK paper separately at a later stage before interview.]
# All competitive exams and all their stages to be objective, OMR-type only.

Bhau you should replace Mr.Baswan in the committee

mayurasharman

pks11630 said:

I knew it long ago...

The election cycle of India is a boon in many ways. And I don't mean it sarcastically. People say that a lot of 'bite the bullet' implementations are hindered by the regular elections.
I say that a lot of 'elitist' decisions also get scuttled by the evenly distributed elections. Lowering the age limit, restricting attempts etc. are bunch of elitist decisions with no empirical and at best a fallacious philosophical base.

I strongly support:
# age limit 40 years for all
# unlimited attempts for all
# NO application fees for all (including UR boys)
# ALL 'A' and 'B' group posts taken through a single exam twice every year. Same for 'C' and 'D' group.
# All state PSCs constitutionally brought together on an 'Inter-State Council' type platform (or even NITI type platform) and a common prelims and mains for all participating states every year. (just like participating banks in IBPS PO) [participating State PSCs can take the language and local GK paper separately at a later stage before interview.]
# All competitive exams and all their stages to be objective, OMR-type only.

+1

dragonborn

@pks11630 I have few queries

1) In your scheme of things, did you factor in the number of vacancies?
2) Currently, the examination process itself takes about a years time. You want exams to happen twice a year. However you havent suggested changes in the exam pattern itself.
3) So if a person enters this cycle of upsc at the age of 21 and takes this exam till 40 years of age, twice each year, then he gets (19X2) 38 chances to clear this exam? Bhai fir UPSC ka mazak ban baithega international stage pe!!

Itne chances to school level pe bhi nahi milti! :P

dragonborn

Log fir kahenge ki life chance de na de, upsc toh zaroor dega

pks11630

@dragonborn Well I had another run-in with you recently. So I decided to answer this too.

1. According to DoPT's own admission in Parliament there are around 6 lakh vacancies in central govt. itself. And this doesn't include the famed Indian "shortage of manpower" which we reiterate in many of our GS-2 and GS-3 answers. Ex. ED only has around 700 officers against a requirement of more than 12000 for proper policing of Indian black money. Similarly the vacancies in state govt + 'shortage of manpower'.
Let's assume only 1 lakh of those 6 lacs are in A & B category. So, even if you start recruiting 10000 vacancies per exam, 2 exams per year, it will take 5 years to fill just the backlog!! Perhaps another 10 to have just an even workforce and that too at centre only. Add the states and do the math...

2. Exam process takes long due to a subjective mains and an utterly stupid practice of filling DAF before mains.
SBI completes the whole pre + mains + gd/pi in 4 months for 2200 posts. IBPS PO does it for 8800 posts in 4 months. RPSC gave result of RAS Pre 2016 in 18 days with an all OMR pattern if u attruibute SBI / IBPS' quickness to online pattern.
So, I'm actually very lenient with the 6 month cycle. We can actually have three exams per year and 4 month cycle!!
No young Indian should have to waste an year of his youth just because luck was not his side in an attempt. Or the mains' examiner was not in good mood !! Or his optional was butchered on whims of UPSC !!

3. Do you actually think anyone will need 38 attempts ??
The higher age limit will eliminate the psychological uncertainty it induces in candidates. If you are 31 years old, the feeling that it's your last attempt will cripple u more than the actual syllabus.
And are you more worried about our international image or the frustration and hopelessness current scheme induces in millions of Indian youth ??

dragonborn

@pks11630 Maybe the government doesnt want to fill in all the posts. Maybe it is better to keep a post vacant than to fill it up just for the sake of filling it up.

Dont you think if the government recruits en masse, it would reduce the process to any generic IT recruitment where almost everyone from a batch is hired?

How will you get the cream then? How will you attract them towards the service? Plus, I believe IAS, IFS, IPS and IRS require a specialised bent of mind and it would be dangerous if we make the entrance process so easy.

I am all game for a change in the current pattern of the exam like removal of the optional, having a common syllabus, introducing more analytical topics/subjects etc but diluting the process so much would definitely reduce the so called steel frame of India to just about any other job.

Itna easy process karne se kahin aisa na ho jaye:

1975 - arey Bhaisaab ye DM Sahib ka ghar kausa hai??
"Wo Jo Bada wala Bangla hai wo".
2031 - Excuse me, ye DM ka ghar kaunsa hai??
...
"Abe Kissi bhi ghar me ghus jaa.

Mathsoptional

pks11630 said:

@dragonborn Well I had another run-in with you recently. So I decided to answer this too.

1. According to DoPT's own admission in Parliament there are around 6 lakh vacancies in central govt. itself. And this doesn't include the famed Indian "shortage of manpower" which we reiterate in many of our GS-2 and GS-3 answers. Ex. ED only has around 700 officers against a requirement of more than 12000 for proper policing of Indian black money. Similarly the vacancies in state govt + 'shortage of manpower'.
Let's assume only 1 lakh of those 6 lacs are in A & B category. So, even if you start recruiting 10000 vacancies per exam, 2 exams per year, it will take 5 years to fill just the backlog!! Perhaps another 10 to have just an even workforce and that too at centre only. Add the states and do the math...

2. Exam process takes long due to a subjective mains and an utterly stupid practice of filling DAF before mains.
SBI completes the whole pre + mains + gd/pi in 4 months for 2200 posts. IBPS PO does it for 8800 posts in 4 months. RPSC gave result of RAS Pre 2016 in 18 days with an all OMR pattern if u attruibute SBI / IBPS' quickness to online pattern.
So, I'm actually very lenient with the 6 month cycle. We can actually have three exams per year and 4 month cycle!!
No young Indian should have to waste an year of his youth just because luck was not his side in an attempt. Or the mains' examiner was not in good mood !! Or his optional was butchered on whims of UPSC !!

3. Do you actually think anyone will need 38 attempts ??
The higher age limit will eliminate the psychological uncertainty it induces in candidates. If you are 31 years old, the feeling that it's your last attempt will cripple u more than the actual syllabus.
And are you more worried about our international image or the frustration and hopelessness current scheme induces in millions of Indian youth ??

Bhai I agree with u. Aap mahan ho. Even I beileve that PCS of all states be merged. Right now it is the most fuc*ing corrupt recruiting body. Further more attempts implies lower B.P, lower tension and good health....

dragonborn

And talking of vacancies, why are we just talking of civil services? Vacancies toh judiciary main bhi hai? Fir bhi, Kitne log law lete hain aajkal?

Law lekar bhi Civils ki preparations karte hain.

dragonborn

aur bhailog, if you merge all the state services, fir federal structure kahan jayega? Sab kuch unitary hi banwa doge kya?

States have the right to recruit officers via their own examinations. And the center cant take that away! Chahe vo reform ke form main bhi kyu na ho!

chachachaudhary

Mistral said:

pks11630 said:

I knew it long ago...

The election cycle of India is a boon in many ways. And I don't mean it sarcastically. People say that a lot of 'bite the bullet' implementations are hindered by the regular elections.
I say that a lot of 'elitist' decisions also get scuttled by the evenly distributed elections. Lowering the age limit, restricting attempts etc. are bunch of elitist decisions with no empirical and at best a fallacious philosophical base.

I strongly support:
# age limit 40 years for all
# unlimited attempts for all
# NO application fees for all (including UR boys)
# ALL 'A' and 'B' group posts taken through a single exam twice every year. Same for 'C' and 'D' group.
# All state PSCs constitutionally brought together on an 'Inter-State Council' type platform (or even NITI type platform) and a common prelims and mains for all participating states every year. (just like participating banks in IBPS PO) [participating State PSCs can take the language and local GK paper separately at a later stage before interview.]
# All competitive exams and all their stages to be objective, OMR-type only.

Bhau you should replace Mr.Baswan in the committee

@Mistral

inkay

bhai logo sabse badi mystery to solve karo.....will optional be there or removed.....

chachachaudhary

pks11630 said:

@dragonborn Well I had another run-in with you recently. So I decided to answer this too.

3. Do you actually think anyone will need 38 attempts ??
The higher age limit will eliminate the psychological uncertainty it induces in candidates. If you are 31 years old, the feeling that it's your last attempt will cripple u more than the actual syllabus.
And are you more worried about our international image or the frustration and hopelessness current scheme induces in millions of Indian youth ??

@pks11630 bhai insan 21 saal me graduate ho jata hai.. ek saal drop lekar masters b kare to 24/25 saal me sab finish....uske 6 saal baad b agar last attempt ki feeling nhi aayi to kb aaegi... bhai 31 ke baad actual me darr lagna chahie insan ko agar naukri chod k baitha h to

fcckfk

is there chance that number of attempts now 6 will be reduced... next year it will be same but after that can it be reduced.

mayurasharman

dragonborn said:

@pks11630 Maybe the government doesnt want to fill in all the posts. Maybe it is better to keep a post vacant than to fill it up just for the sake of filling it up.

Dont you think if the government recruits en masse, it would reduce the process to any generic IT recruitment where almost everyone from a batch is hired?

Itna easy process karne se kahin aisa na ho jaye:

1975 - arey Bhaisaab ye DM Sahib ka ghar kausa hai??
"Wo Jo Bada wala Bangla hai wo".
2031 - Excuse me, ye DM ka ghar kaunsa hai??
...
"Abe Kissi bhi ghar me ghus jaa.

Wow! Just wow!! I can't believe we have such elitist, exclusivist, pseudo-highbrow people aspiring to be civil servants in India!!

@dragonborn Bhai, have u taken a step back and read what u wrote?? Or u just wrote anything in the heat coz u clearly lost the argument.

So we should essentially stop all recruitment and just recruit some 20-30 IAS officers every year. And that wud do for all the sundry administrative posts for 1.3 billion people. Just great!!

Man, u r a piece of work... All the best for ur life dude..

dragonborn

@mayurasharman

Instead of ad hominem, if you could contribute via some constructive comments, that would be great.

Anyways, allow me to give you a headstart.

Have you ever appeared for Short Service Commission Examination? Do you know about the process?

They would rather recruit less, than lowering the bar just to give people "employment". Just imagine, what would happen if the government recruits, say, your "unfit" neighbour , with zero determination to improve, into the army just for giving him a "Job". Now imagine a scenario where there are lakhs of such in the armed forces. What do you think would happen?

And we are talking about the top administrative posts of the country here.


Going by the same logic, IIT(s) should stop their entrance examination and open its gate to everyone, as we are way behind in quality Higher Education and it is the government's responsibility to provide quality education to one and all...

P.S:- The government of the day is doing enough to recruit people in other (administrative) posts anyways, via mass recruitment programs as suggested by you. It is just that this mindset wont work when you want to hire for top echelons of administration of a nation!

.

myway

mayurasharman said:

dragonborn said:

@pks11630 Maybe the government doesnt want to fill in all the posts. Maybe it is better to keep a post vacant than to fill it up just for the sake of filling it up.

Dont you think if the government recruits en masse, it would reduce the process to any generic IT recruitment where almost everyone from a batch is hired?

Itna easy process karne se kahin aisa na ho jaye:

1975 - arey Bhaisaab ye DM Sahib ka ghar kausa hai??
"Wo Jo Bada wala Bangla hai wo".
2031 - Excuse me, ye DM ka ghar kaunsa hai??
...
"Abe Kissi bhi ghar me ghus jaa.

Wow! Just wow!! I can't believe we have such elitist, exclusivist, pseudo-highbrow people aspiring to be civil servants in India!!

@dragonborn Bhai, have u taken a step back and read what u wrote?? Or u just wrote anything in the heat coz u clearly lost the argument.

So we should essentially stop all recruitment and just recruit some 20-30 IAS officers every year. And that wud do for all the sundry administrative posts for 1.3 billion people. Just great!!

Man, u r a piece of work... All the best for ur life dude..

Heat means mrigtrishna

dragonborn

myway said:

mayurasharman said:

dragonborn said:

@pks11630 Maybe the government doesnt want to fill in all the posts. Maybe it is better to keep a post vacant than to fill it up just for the sake of filling it up.

Dont you think if the government recruits en masse, it would reduce the process to any generic IT recruitment where almost everyone from a batch is hired?

Itna easy process karne se kahin aisa na ho jaye:

1975 - arey Bhaisaab ye DM Sahib ka ghar kausa hai??
"Wo Jo Bada wala Bangla hai wo".
2031 - Excuse me, ye DM ka ghar kaunsa hai??
...
"Abe Kissi bhi ghar me ghus jaa.

Wow! Just wow!! I can't believe we have such elitist, exclusivist, pseudo-highbrow people aspiring to be civil servants in India!!

@dragonborn Bhai, have u taken a step back and read what u wrote?? Or u just wrote anything in the heat coz u clearly lost the argument.

So we should essentially stop all recruitment and just recruit some 20-30 IAS officers every year. And that wud do for all the sundry administrative posts for 1.3 billion people. Just great!!

Man, u r a piece of work... All the best for ur life dude..

Heat means mrigtrishna

@myway bhai kehena kya chate ho?

myway

dragonborn said:

myway said:

mayurasharman said:

dragonborn said:

@pks11630 Maybe the government doesnt want to fill in all the posts. Maybe it is better to keep a post vacant than to fill it up just for the sake of filling it up.

Dont you think if the government recruits en masse, it would reduce the process to any generic IT recruitment where almost everyone from a batch is hired?

Itna easy process karne se kahin aisa na ho jaye:

1975 - arey Bhaisaab ye DM Sahib ka ghar kausa hai??
"Wo Jo Bada wala Bangla hai wo".
2031 - Excuse me, ye DM ka ghar kaunsa hai??
...
"Abe Kissi bhi ghar me ghus jaa.

Wow! Just wow!! I can't believe we have such elitist, exclusivist, pseudo-highbrow people aspiring to be civil servants in India!!

@dragonborn Bhai, have u taken a step back and read what u wrote?? Or u just wrote anything in the heat coz u clearly lost the argument.

So we should essentially stop all recruitment and just recruit some 20-30 IAS officers every year. And that wud do for all the sundry administrative posts for 1.3 billion people. Just great!!

Man, u r a piece of work... All the best for ur life dude..

Heat means mrigtrishna

@myway bhai kehena kya chate ho?

Nothing bro its mirage

Ramaswamy

DrKingSchultz said:

Any other source?
Some facts in the article are wrong, so veracity of this claim is doubtful.

I had told a week ago baswan report has been thrown in the dust bin.Furthermore there was protedt in Allahabad regarding this on 19th october.There were demands for attempt grant and not accepting baswan report .Now be ready to participate in delhi protest and this time we will get attempts demand accepted.

mayurasharman

dragonborn said:

aur bhailog, if you merge all the state services, fir federal structure kahan jayega? Sab kuch unitary hi banwa doge kya?

Why stop at complete federal structure?? Why not give states seccessionist powers too like 1977 Soviet Constitution.

But wait, USSR did not break up in 15 parts. Did it??

dragonborn said:

It is just that this mindset wont work when you want to hire for top echelons of administration of a nation!

.

What a great mindset Dr. Jitendra Gupta, Nira Yadav, Tinoo Joshi, Arvind Joshi, Shashi Karnawat, Y. Srilakshmi, Baseer Ahmed Khan, Rakesh Jain, Shamin Banu et. al. had...

Everybody clap!! Clapping... Clapping from the house...
-----------

Man, u literally are a piece of work... U r repeating strawman arguments and accusing me of Ad Hominem. In a discussion on services of civil side u brought in defence services (SSC) and grad admissions (IIT). So much for "constructive comments" !!

And FYI,
- there is no reservation too in defence services, leave alone filling of seats. They are a niche area which fall outside even the constitutional mandate of affirmitive action.
- Govt. recently set up Partha Chakrabarti committee to suggest ways to fill up all seats in IITs and NITs. Students are opting for other options than IITs and NITs.

@dragonborn Just save ur breath dude... We've all known ur twisted, offensive, elitist and exclusivist ideas too well...

dragonborn

mayurasharman said:

dragonborn said:

aur bhailog, if you merge all the state services, fir federal structure kahan jayega? Sab kuch unitary hi banwa doge kya?

Why stop at complete federal structure?? Why not give states seccessionist powers too like 1977 Soviet Constitution.

But wait, USSR did not break up in 15 parts. Did it??

dragonborn said:

It is just that this mindset wont work when you want to hire for top echelons of administration of a nation!

.

What a great mindset Dr. Jitendra Gupta, Nira Yadav, Tinoo Joshi, Arvind Joshi, Shashi Karnawat, Y. Srilakshmi, Baseer Ahmed Khan, Rakesh Jain, Shamin Banu et. al. had...

Everybody clap!! Clapping... Clapping from the house...
-----------

Man, u literally are a piece of work... U r repeating strawman arguments and accusing me of Ad Hominem. In a discussion on services of civil side u brought in defence services (SSC) and grad admissions (IIT). So much for "constructive comments" !!

And FYI,
- there is no reservation too in defence services, leave alone filling of seats. They are a niche area which fall outside even the constitutional mandate of affirmitive action.
- Govt. recently set up Partha Chakrabarti committee to suggest ways to fill up all seats in IITs and NITs. Students are opting for other options than IITs and NITs.

@dragonborn Just save ur breath dude... We've all known ur twisted, offensive, elitist and exclusivist ideas too well...

@mayurasharman I get it. Anything which is not communist and/or nihilist sounds exclusivist, offensive and elitist to you.

I believe you get "twisted" thoughts about the free market structure too?


P.S:- The government is not stopping anyone from taking this examination. So, even in its present form, this process is not elitist and exclusivist in any way. People from all strata of the society clear this exam, going through the same questions, processes and tiers. If you are passionate, hardworking and have some lady luck by your side, you would be able to clear this examination, no matter where you come from. Thats the beauty of democracy, which I am sure you won't understand. I rest my case.

mayurasharman

@dragonborn In that presidential debate thread recently u wr the self-proclaimed "leftist liberal pacifist"...

So now we know tht u don't even hv intellectual honesty and integrity of thought. Great!

Khisiyaani billi khambaa noche