[Discussion] Should India retaliate with overt/covert military operations after Uri attacks?

Are these diplomatic maneuverings enough to counter Pakistani terrorist groups?
Are we too much concerned about 'goodboy' image in International platforms?
Or do we lack military might(or Political will) to counter joint threat of Pakistan and China ?


What are other steps that can be taken?
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Comments

  • Need of the hour (since 1980s):

    1. Surgical strikes ad infinitum (Israel style). Do not relent till the terrorists exist there.

    2. Full free hand to the external intelligence agency for extensive covert support.

    3. Prepare for outright war (with Americans fighting for the Pakis and the Chinese staying put). (Not a mistype)

    4. Naval blockade of Pakistan for all war equipments and strategic items.

    5. Ongoing efforts at countering terror funding, especially oil money from the Gulf.

    6. Full support to the causes of independence of Baluchistan and Sind, with recognition of their representative governments as governments-in-exile.

    7. Relook the Indus water treaty. Cut off the Indus basin water supply in case of a nuclear strike. Respond equitably.

    8. Exterminate the local support base for terrorists in India with delicate interventions.

    9. Keep a very strong vigil on Sri Lanka and Maldives because they're untrustworthy. Don't trust any neighbouring country.

    10. Remove all 'special relationship'-type statuses of states including getting rid of all such constitutional provisions through urgent amendments.

    11. Grow some balls and do the above.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Article 370 is just a showpiece....much water has flown through the Jhelum since 1950s
    It should not be removed....let it hang like that only...helps India to gloss over the uniqueness of our asymmetric federalism

    Covert ops should be done but our media is really pathetic....online polls karwa Rahe hai fb par....Doval sahab toh jaise pakode khaane baithe hai
    "You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf"
  • Media walon me kafi log hain jinko Pakistan ki burayi se nafrat hai. They'll start wincing and whining every time a bloody Paki takes a well deserved bullet Decision makers don't bother about them.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Indus Waters Treaty B)
    Balochistan pressure :#
    Indian Navy

    But, most importantly Remove Article 370. Kashmir issue would be solved then :) . Just maintain the situation for some weeks in the valley then. Learn from China.

    +1
    Let the Indian army do the talking. They should not wait for the permissions to take actions to counter such attacks. Do the surgical strikes and come back.
    Boycott SAARC, BIMSTEC is the way forward.

    Most importantly in our country there are pro-terrorist groups, supporters of human rights of terrorists, they should be dealt properly !!!
    कभी किसी को मुकम्मल जहाँ नहीं मिलता..
    कहीं ज़मीं तो कहीं आसमां नहीं मिलता.....

  • edited September 2016
    Etat said:

    Need of the hour (since 1980s):

    1. Surgical strikes ad infinitum (Israel style). Do not relent till the terrorists exist there.

    2. Full free hand to the external intelligence agency for extensive covert support.

    3. Prepare for outright war (with Americans fighting for the Pakis and the Chinese staying put). (Not a mistype)

    4. Naval blockade of Pakistan for all war equipments and strategic items.

    5. Ongoing efforts at countering terror funding, especially oil money from the Gulf.

    6. Full support to the causes of independence of Baluchistan and Sind, with recognition of their representative governments as governments-in-exile.

    7. Relook the Indus water treaty. Cut off the Indus basin water supply in case of a nuclear strike. Respond equitably.

    8. Exterminate the local support base for terrorists in India with delicate interventions.

    9. Keep a very strong vigil on Sri Lanka and Maldives because they're untrustworthy. Don't trust any neighbouring country.

    10. Remove all 'special relationship'-type statuses of states including getting rid of all such constitutional provisions through urgent amendments.

    11. Grow some balls and do the above.

    @Etat Point 3 is interesting. Could you elaborate your reasons for assuming american support to pak and chinese non interference?

  • ^^ Americans have always supported them. Russia is with us. China is against us and America. America and China a enemies. China and Russia also have issues. South China Sea countries that China is trying to swindle are with us.

    China would not move but would use the opportunity to get back to growth by staying peaceful.

    American war industry is going to push them to aid the Pakis. They might not actually fight but would help the Pakis because of our allies.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Outright overt/covert war, although does sound tempting, is not a good option. It will only strengthen the Pak Army, which is the intent of such attacks in the first place.
    A Lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.
    https://www.facebook.com/jaime.kngslyr.1
    https://twitter.com/JFL_Kingslayer
    https://jflkingslayer.blogspot.in/
    jlkingslayer@gmail.com
  • Pakistan is a country that works for its military, rather than it being the other way around. It's an unofficial junta. It's going to benefit them for sure, if we go to war. But we have to chop it into more pieces so that it's strategic importance dwindles and we can recover PoK.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Fresh fodder -

    1. Upgrade your local police. Give them arms , ammunitions , know-how , tech support. Make akshardham and mumbai attacks tactically and logistically impossible.

    2. Wait till winter when all himalayan passes close due to snowfall and hence stop the chinese advance and possible army attack.

    3. Mobilize troops along the border. Pak will be forced to do the same. Remember , almost half of pak army is managing situation in balochistan or posted on afg border.

    4. Wait. Let military expense hurt pak economy for a while. Ot perform, surgical strikes. Or cut indus water supply.

    5. Play the wait game without relenting pressure. Identify the pak military posts which facilitated terrorists' entry in India. Obliterate them. Eg - pak posts destroyed in aftermath of beheading of saurabh kalia and other soldiers.

    6. Keep lobbying against pak !
    यतो धर्मस्ततो जयः
  • Irrelevant from exam point of view.
  • Expensive but long term strategy is to build the advanced fence / wall along the border equipped with the advanced sensors so that at least infiltration can be checked.
  • Irrelevant from exam point of view.

    +1
  • Read this somewhere on fb, .... Escalation with pak in military terms in coming 2 years will make sure that modi returns to power in 2019. ... Winter migt be coming!
  • Etat said:

    Need of the hour (since 1980s):

    1. Surgical strikes ad infinitum (Israel style). Do not relent till the terrorists exist there.

    2. Full free hand to the external intelligence agency for extensive covert support.

    3. Prepare for outright war (with Americans fighting for the Pakis and the Chinese staying put). (Not a mistype)

    4. Naval blockade of Pakistan for all war equipments and strategic items.

    5. Ongoing efforts at countering terror funding, especially oil money from the Gulf.

    6. Full support to the causes of independence of Baluchistan and Sind, with recognition of their representative governments as governments-in-exile.

    7. Relook the Indus water treaty. Cut off the Indus basin water supply in case of a nuclear strike. Respond equitably.

    8. Exterminate the local support base for terrorists in India with delicate interventions.

    9. Keep a very strong vigil on Sri Lanka and Maldives because they're untrustworthy. Don't trust any neighbouring country.

    10. Remove all 'special relationship'-type statuses of states including getting rid of all such constitutional provisions through urgent amendments.

    11. Grow some balls and do the above.

    While looking at Indus water treaty, we should also understand that most of the perennial rivers enters India from China occupied Tibet.
  • My quick take on Issue after due research -

    1) Indian military already done the so called Covert operation in PoK just few hours post-Uri attack.. and neutralized 20 terrorists.. 2 paratroopers grps done that.. It was reported by just one National English newspaper..later same was forced to take it out..after Army clearly negated it in a statement.. also ministers learnt message of last time Myanmar operation that IF IT COVERT IT MUST NOT BE DISCUSSED !!!..despite many people pressure The Quint in evening again commented that "We Reverified from our Top Military sources..they reconfirmed that Indian military crossed LoC and done the operation. Hence we stand by story." ..one ex-Top officer of Military also tweeted same earlier which was taken off after few minutes.. So NO SANE PERSON SHOULD BELIEVE THAT MILITARY DONE NOTHING TILL NOW..

    Remember one key lesson India learnt post Taj Attack..we hesitated that time to go for a war bcz we thought US will intervene..Now after few yrs reports unfolding that American were most likely expecting to India going on open attack post 26/11 and they were ready to restraint themselves as they believed in Valid cause of India..but we missed that time..


    Covert operations are best if they done within hours of such incidents.. bcz international pressure minimum and high passions argument with you.. So this time IT WAS DONE...


    PS- i know many will not believe.. and nobody can proove this..bcz Army itself don't want it..but believe in your PM who if saying that Perpetrators will not go Unpunished !!.. so immediate military response was given.. beyond that Not possible anything without counter losses..


    2) Now comes Political and Diplomatic steps India taking..as it is unfolding as of now..


    #political isolation of Pak on International arena...today first time we openly called pak a TERRORIST STATE in UN !!..

    #Balochistan issue will now be on paramount.. moral political support to rebels there..one of best step


    # Indus..India will not touch ..as it will result in direct escalation..


    #Attack was carried out by Local Militants supported by Pak based Actors..so Army will now SANITIZE LOCAL area first ie clearing DEEP ASSETS / SLEEPER cells etc... especially those Informers who DOUBLE PLAYED with them ..a chief cause of Uri debacle..


    #Diplomatic measures are still best option for India..Deep Assets will always do their job simultaneously..


    So overall this time response more matured,Multidimensional and Right mix of All kind of passions and Fears :)


    Shubhratri :)


    PPS- Don't ask me of Proof ..I have none..except that search THE QUINT REPORT on issue if it is still there !!!..Believe it or Not.. Bcz Our Views DOESN'T MATTER :D

    Being IAS... 4 U Onlyyy... :-)
  • India should do as कडी निन्दा as possible :lol:
    To be, or not to be, that is the question...
  • India should do as कडी निन्दा as possible :lol:

    That is the favorite food of Indian politicians after such attacks... Curry Ninda...
    A Lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.
    https://www.facebook.com/jaime.kngslyr.1
    https://twitter.com/JFL_Kingslayer
    https://jflkingslayer.blogspot.in/
    jlkingslayer@gmail.com
  • One Covert op has already taken place in PoK by 3 teams of 2 Para SF & 9 Para SF. The raid was to inflict maximum damage to the tangible targets with minimum or no damage to our boys. It was a good op.

    As the Op was clandestine in nature, it being denied is quite natural. Rest LC(or LoC, as it is called in Civilian lingo) is hot and our boys are on the vigil. The whole state is on the high alert and the highways are being manned by armed CRP & Army, even on the Jammu-Udhampur stretch; which was NOT the case earlier.

    My pals at Kala Pahar Brigade ( URI ) have assured me that once we meet, we will discuss the details in an elaborate manner and as of now, they cannot talk much on the phone, owing to NIA investigations/possible role of an external asset in the brigade command.

    And as far as I feel, Indus Water Treaty needs to be revisited.

    That should suffice.
    Veerta aur Vivek.
    Country. Family. God.
    SSB Recommended.
  • I guess apart from the usual response after such an attack. India should definitely look at enhancing its cyber sabotage and cyber attack capabilities. We can buddy up with fellow badass Israel. For ex Stuxnet made by american/israel targeted Iranian Nuclear facility.
    Also we can look at a media blitzkrieg or a perception building exercise like giving out proof's of Pak's mischief to International media houses,investing in films tv shows to show Pakistan in a bad light(for ex. Homeland, Zero Dark Thirty), funding documentaries etc.

    @Etat buddy you really are in the mood for World War 3.

    But I sincerely believe that diplomatic offense is the best way to go forward without escalations. We shouldn't abandon talks or recall ambassador or stop Indus Water as such strategies are a sure shot way of legitimizing Pak army control over Pakistan.Remember its the tumor that has to be removed not the brain.
  • edited September 2016
    ^^ Some people just love to see the (Pakistani) world burn (like me).
    I'm not ashamed of this dark desire. :p

    P.s.: I was enthused by The Goswami. :p

    P.p.s.: I know we're not going to go for war because nobody has the balls to start a world war 3.

    P.p.p.s.: There might just be a few surgical strikes and a whole lot of diplomatic ruffling but little else.

    P.p.p.p.s.: We should liberate Baluchistan.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • India should do as कडी निन्दा as possible :lol:

    That is the favorite food of Indian politicians after such attacks... Curry Ninda...
    Curry Nidra, you mean :D
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Irrelevant from exam point of view.

    Dj wale babu, Paki band to baja,
    Band bajega fir ayega maza. ;)
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Etat said:

    Irrelevant from exam point of view.

    Dj wale babu, Paki band to baja,
    Band bajega fir ayega maza. ;)
    :D :D



    "You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf"
  • I think we should go for a long term strategy with an eventual objrctive of complete annihilation of pak.Build strategic alliances,continue winning states by soft power,start taking rapid strides in global economy(we are alrdy moving in the right direction),build nuclear arsenal,invest heavily in cyber tech and warfare,Use israeli help to have a mossad esque intelligence prowess/have a SEAL/DEVGRU type units who could carry out special ops-this shd be used to target rogues in pok and other adjacent areas,build nuclear shields for Delhi,mumbai,etc(for the eventuality of nuclear war) and most Imp start the war when all the steps are done.Remember porki won't let us live in peace whether its 2016 or 2056 there will be attacks on a regular basis.Its hightime we decide to go for conventional warfare,the timing however should be impeccable,I would say give us another 15_20 years to be a real superpower.Then deactivate their nuclear coms and operations systems,hack every military system of porki and humiliate them in war once again like we did in 1971 only this time there's no shimla esque stupidity hopefully we won't have any of those imbecelic dynastic children ruling us as our premier then.This is how chanakya would go about had he lived today!Saam,daam,dand and no troublemaker in the region.After the war,occuy the area and make it a part of greater India,like it always was,And yes you would need a kemal pasha to deradicalise the remaining paki mullas otherwise it would be a war zone like Syria.
    History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
  • Amidst the calls to increase defence budget, heavy investment in cyber and nuclear capabilities, increased border surveillance using cutting edge technology, drone and surgical strikes... a little perspective...

    http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-bombay-high-court-expresses-concern-over-child-deaths-in-state-due-to-malnourishment-2257499

    That's 46 kids per day. The damage inflicted by our apathetic and self serving political class is much worse than any fidayeen. Ever.
    A Lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.
    https://www.facebook.com/jaime.kngslyr.1
    https://twitter.com/JFL_Kingslayer
    https://jflkingslayer.blogspot.in/
    jlkingslayer@gmail.com
  • Amidst the calls to increase defence budget, heavy investment in cyber and nuclear capabilities, increased border surveillance using cutting edge technology, drone and surgical strikes... a little perspective...

    http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-bombay-high-court-expresses-concern-over-child-deaths-in-state-due-to-malnourishment-2257499

    That's 46 kids per day. The damage inflicted by our apathetic and self serving political class is much worse than any fidayeen. Ever.

    Perspective on your perspective

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2014/08/india-perishable-food-waste-population-growth/
    यतो धर्मस्ततो जयः
  • Covert operations are the least attractive options for the political leadership simply because they can't be bragged about to garner votes. I guesss that was the primary reason why they weren't conducted till now.
    यतो धर्मस्ततो जयः
  • edited September 2016

    Covert operations are the least attractive options for the political leadership simply because they can't be bragged about to garner votes. I guesss that was the primary reason why they weren't conducted till now.

    These things are never straightforward. It takes a lot of time and huge effort to build assets in a hostile country.

    Sadly some of our PMs have been too liberal. IK Gujral, who ordered the dismantling of RAW assets in Pakistan. These assets and the "activities" they undertook in Pakistan were crucial in Pakistan taking back support to khalistani terrorists in Punjab.
    Read this:

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/magazine/The-great-betrayal/2013/10/06/article1816098.ece

    Read Kaoboys of RAW also.

    Morarji Desai made a blunder of slipping out the info on Pakistan's nuclear programme to Zia-ul-haq. Else Indian agents would have sabotaged Pakistan's nuclear programme in the beginning itself.

    Pakistan behaves like petulant child who knows that the world will listen to them because of its nuclear weapons. It's like a monkey holding a gun, everyone around is scared. Had Morarji not blundered, Pakistan may not have been in possession of weapons. The whole narrative would have been different then.

    But it is indeed time to build such network again. And then strike in Lahore and Islamabad/Rawalpindi that have been relatively safe till now from their own home-grown terror networks. Fuel massive unrest in Balochistan, KP/FATA is anyway beyond their control. Only relatively peaceful regions are Sind and Punjab. Created havoc and mayhem there.
    जो उखाड़ना है उखाड़ लो.
  • Fresh fodder -

    1. Upgrade your local police. Give them arms , ammunitions , know-how , tech support. Make akshardham and mumbai attacks tactically and logistically impossible.

    2. Wait till winter when all himalayan passes close due to snowfall and hence stop the chinese advance and possible army attack.

    3. Mobilize troops along the border. Pak will be forced to do the same. Remember , almost half of pak army is managing situation in balochistan or posted on afg border.

    4. Wait. Let military expense hurt pak economy for a while. Ot perform, surgical strikes. Or cut indus water supply.

    5. Play the wait game without relenting pressure. Identify the pak military posts which facilitated terrorists' entry in India. Obliterate them. Eg - pak posts destroyed in aftermath of beheading of saurabh kalia and other soldiers.

    6. Keep lobbying against pak !

    Bravo man
    The world is filled with amazing things you'll probably never notice if you keep staring at your GODDAMN PHONE.
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