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Ishrat Jahan Case

k91k91
edited July 2013 in Current Affairs
This is something that I am not getting a hold of ... what is a "fake" encounter ... Is it that the police killed innocent ones or killed someone about which some IB officer had some intelligence on and shouldn't have put it to the State Crime branch or that the intelligence provided had to be judicially-reviewed first ?
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Comments

  • An encounter is justified when there is an imminent threat to the life of an officer or a member of the public. All other types of police killings can be called fake.

    In the Ishrat Jahan Case, there is doubt over the legitimacy of the intelligence inputs and the chain of command that was followed, and also ample proof of evidence planting and conspiracy-hatching.

    There may be truth to the claim that these people were somehow connected to Islamic terrorism because they had unknown sources of income, had fake identity cards and even David Headley allegedly confessed to his American interrogators that Ishrat Jahan was being trained to become a suicide bomber.

    The problem is that these police officers murdered them and put guns in their hands after the fact, for reasons that will never really come to light. Even if the police is a 100% sure that someone is a terrorist or a gangster, they do not have the right to kill them because we don't live in a police state. The proper procedure is to try and arrest them, and if during the course of that arrest, the life of a police officer is legitimately threatened, only they can they use deadly force to subdue the person.
  • edited July 2013
    @Stardust1901 The theory explained by you above is widely propagated by NDTV, do some data mining at NDTV's site and you shall be convinced of it. Anyhow, not shooting from the hip, the facts of the case are
    1. David Headley confessed that Ishrat was an LeT operative.
    2. The case was gathering dust at the CBI's office, bringing it up a few months before election makes me dead suspicious(tantamount to Modi bashing).
    3.
    The problem is that these police officers murdered them and put guns in their hands after the fact, for reasons that will never really come to light.
    Seriously, you saw them doing that? May be you should testify in the court.
    4.
    Even if the police is a 100% sure that someone is a terrorist or a gangster, they do not have the right to kill them because we don't live in a police state. The proper procedure is to try and arrest them, and if during the course of that arrest, the life of a police officer is legitimately threatened, only they can they use deadly force to subdue the person.
    There is something called 'preventive detention', if the suspects try to evade or resist this detention, in the interest of the national security and the personal safety of the police officers, they have the right to open fire.
    5. Your opinion seems pretty biased to me - you say
    In this case you are doubtful:

    There may be truth to the claim that these people were somehow connected to Islamic terrorism because they had unknown sources of income, had fake identity cards and even David Headley allegedly confessed to his American interrogators that Ishrat Jahan was being trained to become a suicide bomber.
    In this case you are perfectly certain about it:

    The problem is that these police officers murdered them and put guns in their hands after the fact, for reasons that will never really come to light. Even if the police is a 100% sure that someone is a terrorist or a gangster, they do not have the right to kill them because we don't live in a police state. The proper procedure is to try and arrest them, and if during the course of that arrest, the life of a police officer is legitimately threatened, only they can they use deadly force to subdue the person.
    Don't mind me saying this but your views are pretty much in resonance with the pseudo-secular(minority appeasing) English language media, who'll sell their political affiliations for TRPs and subscribe to cock and bull stories(which are of course out of facts) for a few bucks.
    Moral of the story: Its a case when vote bank politics trump national security big time(nothing new to India).
    When victory is certain, even the cowards can fight.
    Brave are those who fight even when their defeat is certain.
  • The report by Metropolitan Magistrate S P Tamang has held this as a fake encounter.
    The SIT formed by Gujarat High Court has held this as a fake encounter.
    The investigation by the CBI has held it as a fake encounter.
    Independent civil society investigation held this as a fake encounter.
    NHRC has held this as a fake encounter.


    Everyone in the country must be out to get poor little innocent Modi and malign his name, but have you considered that it is equally, maybe even more, likely that Modi masterminded these supposed attacks on his life (which surprisingly after so many years of trying, and multiple attempts, none of the terrorists have even managed to get anywhere close to him) and the fake encounters in order to rally the Hindu vote behind him?

    Here's a link with detailed analysis of the events, from which I will liberally quote:
    http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Religion-communalism/2004/ahmedabad-encounter.htm

    It is well known that in recent years, since the Post-Godhra carnage Gujarat has become a site for ‘encounter’ deaths where the same motive has been attributed to the slain ‘terrorists’ of them being a part of a Modi assassination squad.

    Every single one of these encounters takes place in the wee hours of the mornings, in secluded places with zero witnesses, a lot of gunfire is shared, all the terrorists die but not a single police officer gets hurt.

    In the Ishrat Jahan case the contradiction of the official police/Gujarat govt case and the facts are numerous:
    1)According to the police, only one ’terrorist’ had stepped out of the car and there was only one AK 56 and two pistols found among the four of them. It is indeed surprising that about 20 member strong two police teams which had surrounded the car and were well armed with AK 47 rifles and several revolvers could not capture any of them. The use of force by the police has to be commensurate with the force used by the opposite group, which does not seem to be the case in this incident. This raises doubts about their intentions which seem to be directly eliminating the accused, instead of subjecting them to the due process of law for punishing the guilty.
    2)If, on the other hand, the terrorists are said to have fired 42 rounds at the police teams, as the police claim, how is it possible that there were no injuries or bullet marks on a single policeman? The absence of injury suffered by the policemen makes it difficult to establish their claim that they fired at the terrorists in self-defence.
    3) The identity of the two who are described as Pakistanis has not yet been established. There seems to be no serious attempt made by the police to do so. The police did not even possess their photographs and claim to have identified them as LeT terrorists through their description. They have also not flashed their pictures in newspapers or on television in order that they may be identified.
    3) Since the encounter took place early in the morning, in the dark, there were no eyewitnesses apart from the police. No bullet marks or damages were observed on the road or the divider. It is inconceivable that AK 56 bullets from terrorist or AK47 bullets from police firing would not stray and hit the nearby objects.
    4) The names of the police personnel involved in the earlier encounters of Gujarat figure in the present case also. It only reinforces the pattern this ‘encounter’ forms with the earlier similar incidents.
    5) One of the courts in Gujarat had dismissed a case of 'Modi Assasination' due to lack of evidence and acquitted 13 persons as the person on whose confession the conspiracy theory was based had died in encounter. Logically in the present case attempts should have been made to capture the 'terrorists' alive so that the conspiracy could be laid bare. It was moreover necessary in the context of repeated attempts of this terrorist organization to assassinate Modi as Gujarat police themselves claim. Why the Gujarat police did not even attempt to capture the terrorist alive remains a mystery.
  • 1. Who is tamang? and what happened to him..Please find out.
    2. Pakistani identity yet to be established???? Bhai kaun si duniya me ho? Read an article by Kartik tanna on niti central.
    3.J&K Police also caught 3 terrorists who were to kill Narendra modi; Also Ishrat warning came from IB ( GOI agency headed by UPA that time); now dont tell me that Modi controld IB+ J&K police too.
    4. Independent civil society like Teesta and Shabnam hashmi, you say? Please to read about teesta and her embezzling of riot money..And watch an interview with rahul kanwal on headlinestoday for shabnam hashmi where she says that she can trust LeT but not IB...Please do watch.
    5. Bhai..do some research with an unbiased mind. and if you have hanged modi in your mind, then all this is waste.
  • @sauraviiser My point exactly bro.
    @Stardust1901 I hope you read sauraviiser's comment above.
    This is not a conflicting narrative we are discussing here. This is about the strong hold the Congress govt exercises on the media.
    1. Sonia Gandhi was dead sick in sometime ago - how many news channels covered it? She is practically the Empress of India - if she so much as sneezes, the people of India deserve to know about the health of their godmother.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/8682216/Sonia-Gandhi-to-undergo-surgery-in-United-States-cancer-centre.html
    2. Rahul Gandhi was holidaying in Europe and was unwilling to comeback after the recent Uttarakhand disaster - he only came back after the BJP threw a jibe at him.
    3. Sonia Gandhi was a KGB agent(formerly) how many of us know that?
    http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.info/2011/02/sonia/
    You may like to know that in this case Sonia was given a clean chit by the CBI, IB RAW etc etc(the ones who've unsuccessfully tried to implicate Modi in the alleged fake encounters)

    The thing is that when all the govt agencies and the media are at your disposal it doesn't take much working to prove the sun rises from the west.

    For more on the control on media by the Congress party browse through the site 'newslaundry'. For example I am providing you with the link to an interview with the award winning journalist - Madhu Kishwar, who talks about the stranglehold of the Congress party on the media:
    http://www.newslaundry.com/2013/06/i-agree-with-madhu-kishwar-part-1/
    When victory is certain, even the cowards can fight.
    Brave are those who fight even when their defeat is certain.
  • edited July 2013
    When the caged parrot speaks, it sends flutters throughout the establishment. Unfortunately, it is still uncertain if the parrot is truly uncaged yet. Only the final verdict would answer that.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • It is so shameful that an important case like this which points to questions so relevant from the politico-administrative domain like-
    Extra-judicial killings by police, Mockery of civil service neutrality, Judicial delay in terrorist cases, Schism b/w various police agencies, Need for parliamentary oversight of intelligence agencies etc
    ends up in the same shit of BJP vs Congress.........even here

    Is there a difference?
  • It is so shameful that an important case like this which points to questions so relevant from the politico-administrative domain like-
    Extra-judicial killings by police, Mockery of civil service neutrality, Judicial delay in terrorist cases, Schism b/w various police agencies, Need for parliamentary oversight of intelligence agencies etc
    ends up in the same shit of BJP vs Congress.........even here

    Is there a difference?
    My thoughts exactly! Is there an end to this?
  • It is so shameful that an important case like this which points to questions so relevant from the politico-administrative domain like-
    Extra-judicial killings by police, Mockery of civil service neutrality, Judicial delay in terrorist cases, Schism b/w various police agencies, Need for parliamentary oversight of intelligence agencies etc
    ends up in the same shit of BJP vs Congress.........even here

    Is there a difference?
    My thoughts exactly! Is there an end to this?
    The only solution is one which requires a major constitutional amendment radically altering the basic structure of the constitution. Chinese model, anyone? (Hopelessly undemocratic and haplessly corrupt, though). To stop this requires an end to votebank politics. Hence, there is no end to this.

    Throughout history, India has been an internally divided society (united in other ways though), with fissures running between "races," regions, religions, castes and class. Perfect breeding ground for divisive politics. It is only natural that there would be incentives an disincentives from the political masters, for those who are meant to be neutral, to be partisan and fall in line. After that, it is only a matter of time for a situation like this to occur.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • This is a highly sensitive and political topic. I don't think any discussion on this can help any of us in the exam. Better to push this thread to "How not to waste time" thread.
  • i think the discussion has been so far healthy!
  • This is a highly sensitive and political topic. I don't think any discussion on this can help any of us in the exam. Better to push this thread to "How not to waste time" thread.

    Sorry but everything that comes out of one's mouth must not be necessarily exam oriented. Those who aspire to run the country as bureaucrats must not run away from uncongenial situations. Incidents like this are the reality of india and we must not shy away from them just because of 'exam main to ana ni' type stuff.
  • This is a highly sensitive and political topic. I don't think any discussion on this can help any of us in the exam. Better to push this thread to "How not to waste time" thread.
    I really think this is worth a discussion and thanks to the peers who have brilliantly commented on this . I may not be sure if this secures a place amongst the questions that made it to the exam ... but seriously it is not your fault neither mine that it didn't.
  • This is a highly sensitive and political topic. I don't think any discussion on this can help any of us in the exam. Better to push this thread to "How not to waste time" thread.

    Sorry but everything that comes out of one's mouth must not be necessarily exam oriented. Those who aspire to run the country as bureaucrats must not run away from uncongenial situations. Incidents like this are the reality of india and we must not shy away from them just because of 'exam main to ana ni' type stuff.
    You're absolutely right when you say that everything from mouth shouldn't be exam oriented but then there are appropriate political forums for that. All I meant to say was that if one is discussing from exam POV, then this is not going to be of much help. Moreover, avoiding a discussion doesn't always mean running away. There's a big difference between being in an 'unpleasant situation' & 'being political'. One needs to deserve before he desire to run the race. Even CJI of India would have political views but he can't express or even discuss it publicly. Does that mean he's running away? By being political a bureaucrat you'd not only be heading in the wrong direction but also diluting your credentials.
  • edited July 2013
    This is a highly sensitive and political topic. I don't think any discussion on this can help any of us in the exam. Better to push this thread to "How not to waste time" thread.

    There's a big difference between being in an 'unpleasant situation' & 'being political'. One needs to deserve before he desire to run the race. Even CJI of India would have political views but he can't express or even discuss it publicly. Does that mean he's running away? By being political a bureaucrat you'd not only be heading in the wrong direction but also diluting your credentials.

    + 1 for that!!
  • "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"
  • The renowned journalist - Madhu Kishwar writes about Narendra Modi and explores the various paradigms of his secularism.
    'MODINAMA'
    pdf
    pdf
    Modinama.pdf
    3M
    When victory is certain, even the cowards can fight.
    Brave are those who fight even when their defeat is certain.
  • Heard the IB is majorly pissed off at the CBI and GoI for what it believes is witch-hunting. Questions are rising about the D C Headley's alleged revelations about Ishrat Jahan's LeT links.

    Gujrat BJP (ostensibly) points out that the highest number of encounters take place in UP (231 in 2010/11) compared to 4 in Gujrat.

    Top cop is still "missing."

    Pot boiler going up to a simmer and the flame is getting hotter.
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • SC lawyer Vrinda Grover, who represents Ishrat Jahan's mother Shamima
    *Your* tears! *Your* blood! Your *pathetic* lives forged into something of worth
  • 1. this case is subjudice so better not to comment or give verdicts about anything.
    2. impartiality is one of the most imp civil services value , better not to take sides of anyone
    3. as far as i know , upsc will not ask such types of qn.
    4, but because of this case some releavent qn may be asked (within syllabus) like-
    a. media trial , how can they influence justice delivery?
    b. challenges of extra active media and civil society , their role +ve as well as -ve?
    c. professional ethics case study question may be asked, like what would you do in such circumstances as an frontline officer dealing with suspects, or as an ib personal how would u draw your own limit lines?? etc
    d. conflict management system between agencies, problem of coordination within investigation or law enforcement agencies?

    and may be many more

    5. so disscussion on any topic is worth doing but should also limit ourselves in parameters of syllabus as we are aspirants not politicians.

    comments are welcome..
  • 1st Point dont apply, It used to be a problem talking at subjudice cases when there was a Jury system, which was removed after Nanavati case.
  • Why we aspirants are taking sides as if we belong to some political camp.Its not BJP vs CONGRESS forum where we bash each others heads for proving each other wrong.
    Moreover a discussion is where we discuss & not mindlessely blame each other of conflicting views
    As part of this democratic system all of us have the right to share our views.
    If some find this an encounter a fake give your arguements for it & those who consider it a genuine one where threats percieved were real then highlight your arguements but please dont fight it out,just reason it out ,afterall that is what is expected of future bureacrats .
    Cheers ... ;-)
    The fault , dear Brutus, is not in our stars, / But in ourselves, that we are underlings .
  • edited July 2013
    jai sri ram
  • Alternate views sidelined my mainstream Media

    http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/NAT-TOP-ishrat-jahan-went-to-up-village-to-acquire-weapons-to-eliminate-narendra-modi-4312610-PHO.html?seq=1

    Little I’ve seen, though, leads me to believe police or intelligence officers mainly do what they do for personal enrichment or political expediency: indeed, police officers who’ve spent their lives fighting insurgencies tend, in my experience, to be living less well than the ones well-connected enough to have had successful careers in traffic management.
    They do what they do, mostly, because in the Republic we have, as opposed to the one we’d like to have, you often have to chose between law or order.

    http://www.firstpost.com/india/ishrat-jahan-and-the-ethics-of-indias-encounter-policies-929121.html

    most imp

    http://www.firstpost.com/politics/ishrat-jahan-the-inconvenient-story-no-one-wants-to-tell-867173.html

    Bhat’s achievements, Federal Bureau of Investigations interrogators recorded Headley as being told, included multiple strikes in Kashmir and recruiting a “female suicide bomber named Ishrat Jahaan [sic].”

    DILEMMAS POSED: if the police had done what they ought to have done, arrested and charged C1 and C2 with terrorism-related crimes instead of illegally inducing them to cooperate, they’d never have got to Zeeshan Johar. If they’d arrested Johar, and produced him before a magistrate, they’d never have got to Amjad Ali Rana. If they’d arrested Rana, they’d never have got to Javed Sheikh. If they hadn’t got to these men, innocents might have died. And if they hadn’t killed the suspects, C1 and C2 would have been useless for further operations — and possibly dead.

    http://www.firstpost.com/india/ishrat-jahan-case-intelligence-wont-survive-the-investigation-939229.html

  • But this Muslim card has come back to haunt the Congress. Ibrahim has shown his true nationalist colours to the great discomfiture of the Congress, which wants to fix Narendra Modi in the 2004 Ishrat Jahan fake encounter case by hook or crook, by opposing the CBI's attempts to rope in a officer Rajendra Kumar, who had given the Ishrat Jahan tip off to Gujarat police in 2004.


    Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/asif-ibrahim-ib-chief-political-move-haunt-congress-ishrat-jahan-encounter/1/280045.html
  • In 1988, the President of India handed Ajit Kumar Doval a small silver disc exactly one-and-three-eights of an inch in diameter, emblazoned with the great wheel of dharma, a lotus wreath and the words Kirti Chakra. It was the first time a police officer had ever received the medal, among the highest military honours our Republic can bestow.

    He won that medal for unspeakable crimes.


    Like many former intelligence officials, Doval considers himself bound not to discuss past operations. I have his permission, though, to speculate that it may have involved the cold-blooded execution of a Pakistani intelligence officer, the illegal detention of terrorism suspects, torture, the smuggling of arms and explosives across India’s borders, and the use of false identities.

    Lawyers have numbers and words for these things: 302, 304, 364, 120B, the Arms Act, the Explosives Act. These are the laws India’s intelligence services break every single day — to defend the Republic.
  • You may be a king or a little street sweeper,but sooner or later you dance with the reaper!
  • Govt behind Parliament attack, 26/11: Ishrat probe officer
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Govt-behind-Parliament-attack-26/11-Ishrat-probe-officer/articleshow/21062116.cms
    Did I just read that correctly? :O

    If that's true, Machiavelli would be put to shame. W T H?
    Prelims : 2/5; Mains : 0/2; Interview : 0; Remainder : 1+1 (Tired but not; Retired) / Medical Science / Kolkata / Nihilist extraordinaire | Thanks a lot...
  • Govt behind Parliament attack, 26/11: Ishrat probe officer
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Govt-behind-Parliament-attack-26/11-Ishrat-probe-officer/articleshow/21062116.cms
    WOW! This piece of news reminds me of Pakistan's so called "security expert" Zaid Hamid and his conspiracy theories. :-D
  • Govt behind Parliament attack, 26/11: Ishrat probe officer
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Govt-behind-Parliament-attack-26/11-Ishrat-probe-officer/articleshow/21062116.cms
    Did I just read that correctly? :O
    If that's true, Machiavelli would be put to shame. W T H?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
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